My 2009 Journey vs. loaner 2011 Journey: comparison thoughts
03-12-2011, 01:39 AM
#1
My 2009 Journey vs. loaner 2011 Journey: comparison thoughts
Recently, I had my car in to the dealer for some wheel and brake service (see other thread for that silliness) and I was given a 2011, brand-spanking new <900 miles on the odo, 2011 Journey. I've dreaded this day, because I thought I would become so unbearably jealous that I would have to sit on pins and needles until the 2012s came out so that I could feel whole again.
Well, the that was not the case. There are good and bad points about the 2011 in terms of suspension changes (that I suspect have occurred), transmission changes (programing) and interior changes.
Keep in mind I have a hypertech tune and 2008-09 OEM sport wheels with Bridgestone Potenza RE960as ultra-high performance all-season tires.
2011, the good: the car, being green-engined, seemed surprisingly fast as hell. I mean, there was little or none of the throttle lag that I have had to overcome, and the transmission was buttery smooth but yet responsive and shifted well, and at the right times. But my most overwhelming impression was that the 2011 responded like the proverbial bat out of hell, and really seemed faster and torquier than my car with the stock tune ever did. In fact, at times, it seemed faster and more responsive than my car with the Hypertech, but I suspect that had a lot to do with new tranny tuning and possibly a new ECM tune for the 2011s, although I am not sure of the veracity of that claim. It was always breaking loose with a smaller goose of the throttle whereas my car takes a much heavier stomp to produce the same effect.
So the acceleration was great and responsive. It also seems to ride a bit more gently and had a more 'luxury' feel to the suspension tuning, although the feel of the suspension was a bit 'rubbery; feeling at times.
However, when I got it on the freeway, it all changed - it became nervous, squirrley and unsettled feeling at 80 mph+, and had a little balance vibration at those speeds. I was really surprised, because I did not remember my car acting this way when it had the 17 stockers. It was not that fun to drive fast on the freeway, and did not feel as precise as it did at lower speeds. My 2009 with the aforementioned 18-inch sport 225/245 Potenzas feel so much better on the highway. No nervousness, or squirrely behavior from the 2009 on the freeway - feels far more precise and grounded and accurate as a high-speed driver - I suppose this has a lot to do with the wheel/tire set up. That sort of highway feel and driving feel means a lot to me, so I was happily surprised to come to this realization. My 2009 definitely is a better handling driver and highway cruiser. Much more enjoyable to drive at high speeds.
Okay interior; 2011 looks great, love the new console design and brighter aluminum. Love that infiniti **finally** gave the journey standard bluetooth phone connectivity, back-up camera and iPod controls. The fit and finish seemed better as well - the loaner was rattle free. and the new console design was such that it would be impossible for it squeak like the aluminum on my 2009 console - it's mounted differently, and it makes a big difference. The entire console area was much more solid and upscale than my 2009.
We both have the base stereo with the 8" woofer and harsh tweeters up front, and the 6x9 two-ways in the rear. However, I have an infinity basslink in the trunk, and it turns that half-*** intro stereo into a real stereo, I mean, my sub is turned way down, and the crossover is down at it's lowest point, around 50-60hz, and it is a perfect fit with the stock stereo because, I think, it allows you to keep the bass control on the stereo on neutral so then the car speakers don't work anywhere near as hard having to handle all of those lower-end frequencies, and it makes all the difference in the world, imo. Stock stereo sounds like crap without a good sub. Sounds close to premium with one.
Further, the ipod connection had issues with my favorite iPhone apps - it was only partially successful in allowing my to stream my Pandora and Slacker because, apparently you need to have the iPod fired up first and playing and then then turn on the streaming radio apps so that the ipod changes the output stream without the G's entertainment system realizing it, and it will play your streaming stuff. If the iPod is not running first, then it will not play your streaming apps, and instead defaults to XM which still sounds like crap 2 model years later. But it did play my Navigon app sound fine, as long as, again, the iPod was playing first. weird and annoying. My 2009 uses AV inputs (which do not exist in the 2010+ journeys) and does not have any issues such as this.
I hated the white gauges and DIC. I much prefered the red DIC and multi-colored gauges. I find them much easier read, and they add color to the cabin night lighting. And, at night, the red DIC is much easier on the eyes and easier to read, imo. I thought the all-white set-up made it look less aesthetically pleasant and even boring.
Everything else was basically the same. I loved the backup camera, and the multi-point heated seats. I miss my heated seats from previous cars. Oh, and the auto-dim rear-view mirror didn't seem to work well, and was too big, imo. Got in my field of vision too much, I felt. It is a chuncky mother****er. And my radar detector gives compass directions, so I didn't miss that. I have no problem flipping a mirror up or down for night or day use.
I thought that the styling would really drive me over the edge in jealously, but really, it didn't seem to make that of a difference in the end. Fogs down low were nice, but they almost look out of place, like a design afterthought. The new headlights have a nice design, and I do prefer the new parking lights - they are more visible than the 2009 parking lights.
And I hated the triple-spoke rims, sorry. I think they look ungainly. I much prefer the 2009 17s, and prefer overall the 19-inch stockers, but barring, that, I think the 2008-2009 sport 'tuning fork' rims look great, second only to the 19's, but I am biased because I own them for that reason.
Summary- pleasantly surprised by the 2011's responsive throttle and tranny, interior changes, surprisingly disappointed in handling and suspension differences, but I will have to chalk that up to wheel and tire differences, I hope. And, surely I feel, there were some suspension changes between 2009 and 2011. But I do not know this for a fact.
Caveat- my old G8 GT was more fun to drive than either of these cars. Of all the cars i've owned, and no, I've never owned a lotus elise or Porsche 911 turbo, the G8 GT with a tranny and engine tune was unbelievably entertaining. The G37 is a bit more nimble due to size, but it's like riding a well-mannered fast horse while the G8 GT was like riding an out-of-control rodeo bull, lol, that could still run up a rocky mountain path like a mountain goat. RIP G8 GT. I need to own one of those again, along with my G37 so I have something to drive when the G8 has to sit for 3 months with broken DOD lifters that come from Australia, lol.
Well, the that was not the case. There are good and bad points about the 2011 in terms of suspension changes (that I suspect have occurred), transmission changes (programing) and interior changes.
Keep in mind I have a hypertech tune and 2008-09 OEM sport wheels with Bridgestone Potenza RE960as ultra-high performance all-season tires.
2011, the good: the car, being green-engined, seemed surprisingly fast as hell. I mean, there was little or none of the throttle lag that I have had to overcome, and the transmission was buttery smooth but yet responsive and shifted well, and at the right times. But my most overwhelming impression was that the 2011 responded like the proverbial bat out of hell, and really seemed faster and torquier than my car with the stock tune ever did. In fact, at times, it seemed faster and more responsive than my car with the Hypertech, but I suspect that had a lot to do with new tranny tuning and possibly a new ECM tune for the 2011s, although I am not sure of the veracity of that claim. It was always breaking loose with a smaller goose of the throttle whereas my car takes a much heavier stomp to produce the same effect.
So the acceleration was great and responsive. It also seems to ride a bit more gently and had a more 'luxury' feel to the suspension tuning, although the feel of the suspension was a bit 'rubbery; feeling at times.
However, when I got it on the freeway, it all changed - it became nervous, squirrley and unsettled feeling at 80 mph+, and had a little balance vibration at those speeds. I was really surprised, because I did not remember my car acting this way when it had the 17 stockers. It was not that fun to drive fast on the freeway, and did not feel as precise as it did at lower speeds. My 2009 with the aforementioned 18-inch sport 225/245 Potenzas feel so much better on the highway. No nervousness, or squirrely behavior from the 2009 on the freeway - feels far more precise and grounded and accurate as a high-speed driver - I suppose this has a lot to do with the wheel/tire set up. That sort of highway feel and driving feel means a lot to me, so I was happily surprised to come to this realization. My 2009 definitely is a better handling driver and highway cruiser. Much more enjoyable to drive at high speeds.
Okay interior; 2011 looks great, love the new console design and brighter aluminum. Love that infiniti **finally** gave the journey standard bluetooth phone connectivity, back-up camera and iPod controls. The fit and finish seemed better as well - the loaner was rattle free. and the new console design was such that it would be impossible for it squeak like the aluminum on my 2009 console - it's mounted differently, and it makes a big difference. The entire console area was much more solid and upscale than my 2009.
We both have the base stereo with the 8" woofer and harsh tweeters up front, and the 6x9 two-ways in the rear. However, I have an infinity basslink in the trunk, and it turns that half-*** intro stereo into a real stereo, I mean, my sub is turned way down, and the crossover is down at it's lowest point, around 50-60hz, and it is a perfect fit with the stock stereo because, I think, it allows you to keep the bass control on the stereo on neutral so then the car speakers don't work anywhere near as hard having to handle all of those lower-end frequencies, and it makes all the difference in the world, imo. Stock stereo sounds like crap without a good sub. Sounds close to premium with one.
Further, the ipod connection had issues with my favorite iPhone apps - it was only partially successful in allowing my to stream my Pandora and Slacker because, apparently you need to have the iPod fired up first and playing and then then turn on the streaming radio apps so that the ipod changes the output stream without the G's entertainment system realizing it, and it will play your streaming stuff. If the iPod is not running first, then it will not play your streaming apps, and instead defaults to XM which still sounds like crap 2 model years later. But it did play my Navigon app sound fine, as long as, again, the iPod was playing first. weird and annoying. My 2009 uses AV inputs (which do not exist in the 2010+ journeys) and does not have any issues such as this.
I hated the white gauges and DIC. I much prefered the red DIC and multi-colored gauges. I find them much easier read, and they add color to the cabin night lighting. And, at night, the red DIC is much easier on the eyes and easier to read, imo. I thought the all-white set-up made it look less aesthetically pleasant and even boring.
Everything else was basically the same. I loved the backup camera, and the multi-point heated seats. I miss my heated seats from previous cars. Oh, and the auto-dim rear-view mirror didn't seem to work well, and was too big, imo. Got in my field of vision too much, I felt. It is a chuncky mother****er. And my radar detector gives compass directions, so I didn't miss that. I have no problem flipping a mirror up or down for night or day use.
I thought that the styling would really drive me over the edge in jealously, but really, it didn't seem to make that of a difference in the end. Fogs down low were nice, but they almost look out of place, like a design afterthought. The new headlights have a nice design, and I do prefer the new parking lights - they are more visible than the 2009 parking lights.
And I hated the triple-spoke rims, sorry. I think they look ungainly. I much prefer the 2009 17s, and prefer overall the 19-inch stockers, but barring, that, I think the 2008-2009 sport 'tuning fork' rims look great, second only to the 19's, but I am biased because I own them for that reason.
Summary- pleasantly surprised by the 2011's responsive throttle and tranny, interior changes, surprisingly disappointed in handling and suspension differences, but I will have to chalk that up to wheel and tire differences, I hope. And, surely I feel, there were some suspension changes between 2009 and 2011. But I do not know this for a fact.
Caveat- my old G8 GT was more fun to drive than either of these cars. Of all the cars i've owned, and no, I've never owned a lotus elise or Porsche 911 turbo, the G8 GT with a tranny and engine tune was unbelievably entertaining. The G37 is a bit more nimble due to size, but it's like riding a well-mannered fast horse while the G8 GT was like riding an out-of-control rodeo bull, lol, that could still run up a rocky mountain path like a mountain goat. RIP G8 GT. I need to own one of those again, along with my G37 so I have something to drive when the G8 has to sit for 3 months with broken DOD lifters that come from Australia, lol.
Last edited by ozzypriest; 03-12-2011 at 01:47 AM.
03-12-2011, 12:19 PM
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I believe most of the handling differences and road feel as you noted are from the different wheels/tires setup. I have an 09 journey with the 18" sport wheel options (aka g35 wheels), and I have 2 siblings with 09 journeys with the stock 17's. Even steering at low speed is a different feel with the 17s. I wonder if your perception of speed with the 2011 was because of the aforementioned stock tire setups they come with. One day I'd like to put some lightweight 18's on the car and see if I can tell a difference in acceleration/braking, etc. Another relative has a 2011 journey and I agree with the interior upgrades. At first I thought I'd envy the new grill+fogs and headlights, but the interior upgrades really make the 10+ models stand out. No more secret pocket in the rear seat armrest though. 
03-12-2011, 03:07 PM
#4
oh I didn't even sit in the back! My kids love the secrect pocket. Plus, Infiniti cheaped out on the metal infiniti kick plates in the rear because there are none, lol - really infiniti, was it that much of a savings?
Yeah, again, what really surprised me was the handling feel and characteristic differences, and the tranny/acceleration/throttle feel differences - I was not expecting those at all. And again, I really like the new console & aluminum, it is a big improvement, and the build QC got better, but the gauges & DIC are a real downer, I would hate to have to look at those all day, but it is great that Carlos threw in camera + heated seats + bluetooth. I mean, I can walk over to the Kia dealer right now an buy a 21-23k Optima which doesn't look or handle half bad, and get that stuff + a lot more as standard equipment.
Infiniti, in 2012, had better get the G a 350-360 HP DI engine and at least 300 ft. lbs of torque to be competitive with everybody else's new offerings. For instance, here's a quote from C & D about the new Genesis Coupe:
I know, I know, the haters will say "but it's a freaking Hyundai" but people, most car buyers are not on this board, and are not die-hard infiniti lovers with 'infiniti 4ever' tattooed on their biceps, and they will cross-shop those cars, and cars like them, and will come to appreciate the cost-to-value ratio that those kinds of manufacturers represent.
If I didn't have kids, I'd probably have a 5.0 mustang or would think seriously about a a 2012 Genny coupe despite the interior (inferior) quality differences. To tell you the truth, if a car is built solid, I don't mind some hard plastics here and there, and neither do many enthusiasts. Plus, I don't have to run the risk of 900 dollar shell games about wheels hubs and studs and lug nuts (see other thread) or save up 700 dollars for a 30k checkup.
IMO, Infiniti, if they don't up their electronics and power/tranny game, will find themselves in the unenviable location of man-in-the-middle - buyers who appreciate value and sporty power will head towards Ford and Hyundai an others of that ilk, and those with the $$Money to afford a 40k+ sports sedan will be over in the BMW, Audi and Mercedes lots.
Even the Poser C350 finally got a decent engine this year (302 hp, 273 tq) and runs, what 45k? The M57 holds the current industry for highest days-on-lot at, I think, at 147 - they sit there for so long, the CR has them as a 'good buy bet' because you can get them for many thousands of MSRP. The M37 is not doing much better. The G37 is the bread and butter for Infiniti's cars, so they need to do it perfect in 2012 or they will really suffer. Although, for some reason, the QX56 is selling really well. Go figure.
Yeah, again, what really surprised me was the handling feel and characteristic differences, and the tranny/acceleration/throttle feel differences - I was not expecting those at all. And again, I really like the new console & aluminum, it is a big improvement, and the build QC got better, but the gauges & DIC are a real downer, I would hate to have to look at those all day, but it is great that Carlos threw in camera + heated seats + bluetooth. I mean, I can walk over to the Kia dealer right now an buy a 21-23k Optima which doesn't look or handle half bad, and get that stuff + a lot more as standard equipment.
Infiniti, in 2012, had better get the G a 350-360 HP DI engine and at least 300 ft. lbs of torque to be competitive with everybody else's new offerings. For instance, here's a quote from C & D about the new Genesis Coupe:
"Hyundai’s Genesis coupe will receive the same 333-hp, 291-lb-ft 3.8-liter V-6 engine that the company recently announced is headed for the Genesis sedan. The revised powerplant—which features direct injection—offers a good bump in power over the outgoing V-6 engine, which made 306 hp and 266 lb-ft. At 333 hp, the Genesis coupe will top its six-cylinder pony-car rivals; the Chevy Camaro offers 312 hp, while the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger each pack 305-hp sixes under their hoods."
So c'mon - the base Genny sedan will be at better power output than our current G37 sedans in 2012, the coupe will be better (and probably faster) than our coupe, and the Genny 8-banger will pack 429 freaking HP! For the same price as our cars. I know, I know, the haters will say "but it's a freaking Hyundai" but people, most car buyers are not on this board, and are not die-hard infiniti lovers with 'infiniti 4ever' tattooed on their biceps, and they will cross-shop those cars, and cars like them, and will come to appreciate the cost-to-value ratio that those kinds of manufacturers represent.
If I didn't have kids, I'd probably have a 5.0 mustang or would think seriously about a a 2012 Genny coupe despite the interior (inferior) quality differences. To tell you the truth, if a car is built solid, I don't mind some hard plastics here and there, and neither do many enthusiasts. Plus, I don't have to run the risk of 900 dollar shell games about wheels hubs and studs and lug nuts (see other thread) or save up 700 dollars for a 30k checkup.
IMO, Infiniti, if they don't up their electronics and power/tranny game, will find themselves in the unenviable location of man-in-the-middle - buyers who appreciate value and sporty power will head towards Ford and Hyundai an others of that ilk, and those with the $$Money to afford a 40k+ sports sedan will be over in the BMW, Audi and Mercedes lots.
Even the Poser C350 finally got a decent engine this year (302 hp, 273 tq) and runs, what 45k? The M57 holds the current industry for highest days-on-lot at, I think, at 147 - they sit there for so long, the CR has them as a 'good buy bet' because you can get them for many thousands of MSRP. The M37 is not doing much better. The G37 is the bread and butter for Infiniti's cars, so they need to do it perfect in 2012 or they will really suffer. Although, for some reason, the QX56 is selling really well. Go figure.
Last edited by ozzypriest; 03-12-2011 at 03:13 PM.
03-12-2011, 03:18 PM
#5
I believe most of the handling differences and road feel as you noted are from the different wheels/tires setup. I have an 09 journey with the 18" sport wheel options (aka g35 wheels), and I have 2 siblings with 09 journeys with the stock 17's. Even steering at low speed is a different feel with the 17s. I wonder if your perception of speed with the 2011 was because of the aforementioned stock tire setups they come with. One day I'd like to put some lightweight 18's on the car and see if I can tell a difference in acceleration/braking, etc. Another relative has a 2011 journey and I agree with the interior upgrades. At first I thought I'd envy the new grill+fogs and headlights, but the interior upgrades really make the 10+ models stand out. No more secret pocket in the rear seat armrest though.
Another thing to consider is that stock 17s are still those super-mediocre RS-As. I can't believe infiniti still puts those on the car as OEM. Carlos must have gotten one hell of a volume deal from Goodyear.
03-12-2011, 04:15 PM
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And right! I thought for sure it would be the exterior that I would pine for, but it was the interior changes that I really liked. In person, the exterior is not that more appealing at all. I like it, but was not overcome with "I gotta have it" like I thought I would from pics, etc.
Another thing to consider is that stock 17s are still those super-mediocre RS-As. I can't believe infiniti still puts those on the car as OEM. Carlos must have gotten one hell of a volume deal from Goodyear.
Another thing to consider is that stock 17s are still those super-mediocre RS-As. I can't believe infiniti still puts those on the car as OEM. Carlos must have gotten one hell of a volume deal from Goodyear.
03-12-2011, 09:07 PM
#7
^^ Yes, I will agree it is a step forward in the looks department, the new front end. But nothing to get upset over, like I thought I would.
And kids, I think the lesson we all learned here today is that great tires are probably the most important thing you can do for your car. They can make or break the enjoyment of your vehicle.
And kids, I think the lesson we all learned here today is that great tires are probably the most important thing you can do for your car. They can make or break the enjoyment of your vehicle.
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03-12-2011, 11:11 PM
#8
Interesting observations.
I actually had an 09 (or 10) loaner while my 11 was getting the driveshaft replaced. I felt the handling really wasnt there with the loaner, especially compared to my 11. My 11 feels rock solid at 80+ mph (although it didnt before they replaced the wobbling driveshaft). Makes me wonder if maybe your 11 loaner had a bad driveshaft too! It was a weird vibration that I could feel through the pedals and could hear as some sort of oscillating noise.
I wonder if along the way the 09 suspension became some version of the 11 suspension but only included in certain configurations (i.e. Sport, Limited Edition, etc) Its interesting to note that there are, I believe, 3 steering ratios available on the car, so your steering feel can be different between journey, sport, sport awd, etc.
Did you mention what tires the 11 had? I have the Dunlops and hate them, but they seem to handle at least OK. A little noisy and transfer a little too much road feel IMO. Just waiting for the day I can justify a Conti DWS upgrade.
I passed a G35 tonight and they had the all orange dash...thought to myself "thank goodness I dont have that", but ive never seen the 09 dash lit up to tell if its nicer than the 11 or not. I like the white lettering myself, never really thought about the red DCI vs white........would have to see it in person I think.
BTW, was the brake issue ever figured out? Or are you waiting to hit another dealer?
I actually had an 09 (or 10) loaner while my 11 was getting the driveshaft replaced. I felt the handling really wasnt there with the loaner, especially compared to my 11. My 11 feels rock solid at 80+ mph (although it didnt before they replaced the wobbling driveshaft). Makes me wonder if maybe your 11 loaner had a bad driveshaft too! It was a weird vibration that I could feel through the pedals and could hear as some sort of oscillating noise.
I wonder if along the way the 09 suspension became some version of the 11 suspension but only included in certain configurations (i.e. Sport, Limited Edition, etc) Its interesting to note that there are, I believe, 3 steering ratios available on the car, so your steering feel can be different between journey, sport, sport awd, etc.
Did you mention what tires the 11 had? I have the Dunlops and hate them, but they seem to handle at least OK. A little noisy and transfer a little too much road feel IMO. Just waiting for the day I can justify a Conti DWS upgrade.
I passed a G35 tonight and they had the all orange dash...thought to myself "thank goodness I dont have that", but ive never seen the 09 dash lit up to tell if its nicer than the 11 or not. I like the white lettering myself, never really thought about the red DCI vs white........would have to see it in person I think.
BTW, was the brake issue ever figured out? Or are you waiting to hit another dealer?
03-13-2011, 01:48 AM
#9
Right, remember this is all IMO. I did feel the 11 was really very sharp and responsive in city driving. I think the steering boost program must have changed a little over the years. The 011 was riding on RS-As, a really mediocre tire at best. I think my current wheel/tire package made a big difference at highway speeds, at least between these two cars. And yes, the vibration was more of an oscillation I could feel through the seat of my pants. But the car was squirrley, and wandered whereas my 09 did not. I would have to think it was the Goodyears. And I also forgot to mention that the steering wheel had changed - it was of a softer leather with more padding.
As for my brakes, the dealer actually called my back to see if my service had been satisfactory! I said basically yes, but that the techs misdiagnosed my issue and I still had judder and that it was most likely the front rotors. I also mentioned the stud and lug nut issue - I thanked them for bringing it to my attention but that warping due to overtightening was just conjecture and that the price to "make sure everything was okay"'for/by replacing all the lugnuts and studs for almost 900 dollars was outrageous and that I or my local Nissan dealer could perform that service for almost a third of of that cost. And that again, my brake issue was not resolved.
They said they would call me back on Monday and would work hard to resolve my issue. I swear they must be reading this forum.
As for my brakes, the dealer actually called my back to see if my service had been satisfactory! I said basically yes, but that the techs misdiagnosed my issue and I still had judder and that it was most likely the front rotors. I also mentioned the stud and lug nut issue - I thanked them for bringing it to my attention but that warping due to overtightening was just conjecture and that the price to "make sure everything was okay"'for/by replacing all the lugnuts and studs for almost 900 dollars was outrageous and that I or my local Nissan dealer could perform that service for almost a third of of that cost. And that again, my brake issue was not resolved.
They said they would call me back on Monday and would work hard to resolve my issue. I swear they must be reading this forum.
03-13-2011, 07:54 PM
#10
I had a 2011 G as a rental and also felt the acceleration was quicker and smoother, as well as the tranny. I've asked several times already, but haven't confirmed, if the tranny update had been applied to the 2011's by default. if that is the case, then i'll definitely get the update.
03-14-2011, 08:24 AM
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It is also bigger. It is actually more of a competitor for the M than the G. I almost bought one when I got my G a couple of years ago. It was just a little too big for my tastes, was not quite as nice inside, and since it was a brand new model they were not dealing on them at all.
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