Is this repair a ripoff or for reals?
 

I took my car in to a new dealer today for brake judder - I have had the front rotors machined twice. The service manager calls back and tells me that it's from the rear rotors, not the front rotors, and that the problem is that my wheel lugnuts (installed at a reputable aftermarket dealer) were all torqued to 150 lbs, and that factory specs call for 80-90 lbs of toque. He said that the That this over-torquing caused the rear rotors to warp and that the lug nuts were warped (is that even possible?) and that he thinks the studs have pulled away from the hub some over time.

So, he says he needs to replace the lug nets for sure. AND, if he just machines the rear rotors on 'goodwill' and torques everything back to 80lbs, that the studs will be loose n the hubs, and the wheels will no longer be tight a proper tight fit on the car, and it will be dangerous and all sorts of bad things could happen.

This scenario is plausible. They want 300 for parts, 530 for labor. What does the board say? I need to call them back later today. I have the money, but it's what I had saved for the 30k service!!!

I'd be calling the wheel dealer and asking for answers from them.

As it turns out, it's a huge ripoff.

^ of couse it is, on many levels. even IF they are required, rear rotors costing $300? i've found them for $69/ea online. labour for rear rotors costing $530? that's about 1.2hrs so it should be $125 max, but doing it yourself is simple enough.

regardless, i suspect this was just an outright scam anyways...

Run, don't walk, away from that particular dealer. Tell everyone on Planet Earth who will listen to do the same.

It was. Basically what the service rep told me was impossible. The lug nuts can't warp, they can strip out, that can crush a bit but not warp. Plus, the studs can't do the same either. They come in from the back of the hub, and they would be more likely to snap rather than 'crush' in the area in which they are inserted and rest. the rotors could be warped from the pressure, but hey, they are doing a 'goodwill' resurfacing for free do I told them to go a head, do that, fix my other warranty stuff, resurface like they already told me they would for free, but put everything back in the same with proper torque specs and I would take care of the rest.

The 'goodwill' resurface I imagine was the bait to get me to pay for the outrageous fake repair. I will be filing a complaint with Infiniti National, and possibly the BBB. I will take it to a trusted Nissan dealer I know and get them to inspect the studs, lug nuts hubs and rotors.

If there is an issue, I Will buy some jackstands, the parts online, and a torque wrench and get on it myself.

I'll have to say, what a huge dissapointment. I cannot believe they were going to try and suck 800 bucks put of my pocket, food from children's mouths. I extremely upset with this service / dealer.

Is the name of the dealer a secret?
Would you care to save some other forum members from this abuse?

Steven Turner
to MyG37

show details 1:08 PM (0 minutes ago)

Wait till I get my car out of there (tomorrow) , and I'll tell y'all who they are. In fact, when I get my car out, I'm going to have all that crap inspected by my local nissan place while I stand over their shoulders (they are good guys, I know them) and see what they say. But their parts and services people echoed the sentiments of this board, and one guy said run, don't walk away from this dealer, they are crooks and thieves.

For example - Nissan parts guy called the Infiniti dealer, and cgot the price on new nuts and studs. 172. Ripoff in and of itself, right? Service adviser at Infiniti dealer told me over the phone in the initial phone call that the studs and lugnuts cost 310.00 Jeebus Z xmas, what I blatant lie, like I couldn't find that into out for myself??????

Yes, in the words of Spartacus: Blood and Sand, (a) dealing with them or even getting away from them is a c0ck in the arse from either direction, and (b) if they f**k with my car, my boot will find their arse in the afterlife. Oh, and the service adviser is a snake who walks on two legs.

i would scratch cars on the showroom floor lucky for me they treat me like royalty

Wow, that is truly sad. Definitely complain to Infiniti. It is amazing how many unscrupulous dealerships there are out there.

Thankfully I've had good luck with Orland Park Infiniti the few times I have taken my car there.

Rotors can warp from over torquing, this is partially why I have a torque wrench. Of course they're still rippin you off for those rotors. And it is hard to warp rotors from 150 ft lbs.

I would like to see your studs. so called pulled through lol. Those bitches break off. If you over torque them enough to stretch then after they get hot and you take a turn they should break. Other wise they are not over stretched. Break away torque does not always equal torque you tighten them down to. If you drove your car for a while especially with salt on the road corrosion will make the break away torque higher than what the wheel shop torqued them to. I used to have a car where I would torque it with a torque wrench to 95ftlbs then after months when I would take the wheel off it would take around 300ftlbs+ to break them loose. Overtightening lugnuts a little doesn't warp rotors as long as the torque is even on lug nuts. From the sounds of the break away torque assuming these were left untouched for months they were probably closer to 100ftlbs on tightening. Also, I find it hard your rear rotors are warped, that takes some real talent. On the other hand cutting your front rotors a few teams would lead me to say your front rotors are probably warped again. Cars these days don't have the metal to cut like back in the day. This reduces spin loss and improves mpg cheaply to. I don't see how a rotor could be cut twice and still be with in spec.
That dealer in Orland Park can kiss my a$$ the dealer part treated me like shiiiit everytime. If you don't walk in there saying ya I got money falling out of my pockets see the trail from my car. Then they don't want to have a thing to do with you. As for their service side i cannot contest to them because I have not been to that side. The Infiniti dealer in another state I live is the opposite the dealer is nice and great to everyone and the service side is a bunch of rip off/ con-artist.

You did it right and wait till you get your car out of there before you blast them but that is complete BS! Pick your car up and take it to another dealership, I had a similar horrible experience at Berman Infiniti & Lisle Infiniti here in chicago. Both gave me the complete run around about the Brake Judder TSB. Contact infiniti consumer reports and file a complaint about the dealership after you pick it up. Search the forums for the link directly to the TSB and print up a copy when you bring it in to the next dealership. They should cover all cost associated with resurfacing the rotors & replacing the pads.

Your lucky, Ive had to talk to the service advisors a few time about my girls car. He thought they could just had her some crap & she would accept it. He wasnt too happy to hear from me!

Fair enough, but I have to admit that I feel sorry for the service advisors at dealerships. They don't make much, and they have to take crap from every guy with a chip on his shoulder that drives in. It has to be a tough job.

Allright. Well I called them up and said give me the free rear resurfacing gratis as promised, and then put everything back together again at 80lbs and I'll take care of it myself. I was very nice throughout the entire process, no histrionics or anything like that.

They actually very nice when I can to pick up the car - they fixed my other issues - squeaky lumber support in drivers seat and super-creaky center console. They took the console apart and auto-felted everything and it was about 50% fixed - much better than it was, though. They did a multi-point inspection for free, and there was no charge for anything. So I will give them that much.

But, the re-surfacing of the rears didn't fix jack, as we all thought. The car still has judder at high speeds, and doesn't brake anywhere near as smoothly as the 2011 loner journey I drove for a few days. The problem, to me, is obviously thr fronts - I mean, I've had two resurfacings and the problem keeps popping up, I mean c'mon infiniti, pony up the GD dough for two new front rotors, they cost like 70 bucks each for chrissakes!!

That being said, I need to visit a new dealer -I am in Tuscaloosa, and this dealer was Crown Infiniti in Birmingham. I will take a visit after spring break to the next closest infiniti dealer in Montgomery and talk very seriously with them about the front rotors. I am getting sick of dealing with this issue when it could be resolved quite easily and cheaply. Labor for rotor replacement has got to be less than resurfacing. Car handles and feels fine, though nothing seems odd about the tires. Am buying a torque wrench tomorrow and will re-torque the front and check the rears.

If I do need to have anything done, I may just spend 150 on the rotors myself, and 150 on lugnuts and studs, and either do it myself or have the local Nissan place do it (in an hour they said) for around 100.00 So Crown wanted 860 or so just to replace the studs and lugnuts. I can buy new rotors, lugnuts and studs for 300, and labor is 100. So entire issue solved for 400.00 on my lonesome.

But I am calling infiniti customer service, and filing a complaint about the general lack of response to this issue from all 3 dealers who have not fixed it, and explain to them my dissatisfaction and the poor return on investment they are getting by constantly spending time and labor resurfacing everything instead of doing a replacement. It is just getting silly. I will then have them call Montgomery, and hopefully everything will be prepared ahead of time for the service and I can be done with this brake ridiculousness.

Sounds like you're getting blown out of every dealer. Have you built up a relationship with any advisor you have worked with? Is your car getting regularly serviced at the dealer?

I don't think they are goodwilling ****. Isn't the brakes part of the standard warranty or atleast up to a certain mileage? I know anything above a certain amount of miles is considered wear and tear.

I remember Acura covered brakes on the TL for 3 years or 36k for squeaking and crappy rotors.

Hopefully ICS can do something for you.

Okay - here is my latest update - Crown infiniti of Birmingham is the dealer in question that tried to claim over torquing on my lug nuts. and then charge me 350 bucks for 170 in parts and 500 in labor. So I called bull**** on their conjecture, and had them put it all back together. As it turns out, that hadn't even checked the torque on the fronts.

BUT when I called ICS, they talked to Crown, and this *******, lying, cheating theiving ****nose of a dealer claimed they had and that if my fronts were warped, then it was the over-torquing that caused it. And that there was no manufacturing defect. So ICS refused to help with the issue, and basically told me to **** off, and don't let the door hit me on the way out. They were very rude. And I was rude back, I totally lost my temper.

I said, 'really!!??' I told ICS (a) that Crown never checked the bolts on the front, so they have no idea to what lb/ft they were torqued, and I was told that on several occasions; and (b) my rotors have a documented history of manufacturer-recognized defects and subsequent warranty repair. - that is, they have been machined twice by two different dealers to fix brake judder problems. so that (c) suddenly, my rotors have become defect free? And that a theoretical issue using an outright guess without any evidence to back it up has over-ruled my long history of front rotor problems? And that this theoretical issue has then re-warped my suddenly defect-free rotors?

I checked the torque on my fronts with my torque wrench, and they were nowhere no where near 150lbs. I easily uncranked them at around 85-95, and recranked them to exactly 80. There was no torque issue with my front wheels.

This is the second time I have gotten the run-around from ICS. I am sick and tired of infiniti treating me this way and the dealerships as well. Any excuse not to cover a defect or an issue. Jesus Christ, imagine if I had an aftermarket exhaust and I developed an engine problem? Infiniti, I am done with you.

This was the last straw for me - I have put up with creaks and groans, and cracking leather and whiny ECUs and brake issues and ****ty dealers everywhere, but enough is enough, I am selling this car. Seriously. I am done with luxury brands. The dealers are no better than pontiac or chevy or kia excet that they try to rip you off for more money, and the company doesn't care about keeping you as a customer.

My next car will be a 2011 Dodge Charger, a beautiful car that has been completely redone, and features an interior every bit as nice as the G37's and in many ways, nicer. Believe, I have sat in their Nappa leather versions and they are very, very nice. Much nicer than the standard leather in our G37s. The base and upgraded versions feature many more standard amenities, they have comletely re-done the suspension that makes this 2 ton car handle almost like 5-series, the new exterior is also very attractive (compared to the pre-2011 models, which I couldn't stand) and did I mention it comes with 370 HP and 395 tq? I look forward to the new era of re-vamped and competitive american muscle, and while I will be sad to see the G go, but I am done with this company. My rear deck still has a shim in it because no one could ever fix the rattle.

Besides, my kids need a larger, more comfy highway cruiser. The G37 is too small.

It's no wonder you can buy the G37 at 6.2k off MSRP through PenFed's buying service.

I don't blame you for leaving Infiniti/Nissan but I don't think you are going to get better product/service at a Dodge dealer. There are a few American cars that I would prefer rather than a G37 but for me there isn't something from Dodge/Chrysler yet.

edit: I've had problems with Nissan brakes since 1995 in a variety of cars and the dealer/corporate has always come through with free resurfacing, new rotors, and even new calipers.

@ozzypriest: I feel you! My rotors were re-surfaced twice (at 12K, 24K). Now at 40K, it's back. They refused to replace or do anything now because they say my car has 40K+ miles. I am just gonna replace my front rotors + pads in a couple of months out of my pocket.

I plan to keep this car for another 2, 3 years and get something else. Probably a Lexus. Have you considered a Lexus or the new TL? And yes, this will be my last Infiniti. The car is fun and powerful but the quality is just not there.

Sorry to hear of all the BS you've been dealt. I'm seriously considering a new Mustang 5.0 for my next ride, and their leather & paint is superior to the Gs too. The new Chrysler 300s look pretty nice if I really wanted a bigger sedan, but the Mustang is just calling me out right now, and the new 5.0 is a frickin blast to drive, didnt' want to bring it back, lol.

Right - if I keep the car I'll have to replace the rotors and pads myself, and at 29k miles, to be denied warranty action for a well documented, recurring, manufacturer defect is just very unacceptable. I expected more out of infiniti.

Interesting. I took my G in for the first time for the brake judder and my car had 45K miles on it. They machined the rotors under warranty, without me even having to ask. I was fully expecting to have to pay.

It is pathetic the way they have treated you. If you go with Dodge, I hope you have better luck than I have. I had similar problems with them, both with a Caliber and a 2500 MegaCab. The truck has had 3 calipers actually crack in half. They replaced the first two, but now the truck is out of warranty(due to age not miles, only 30K on a 2006). Not to mention I did not trust them to replace it again only to have it break again in the future.

On the Caliber, the Catalytic converter failed at 79K miles, and they actually charged me for a software update to get rid of a CEL right after the car went over the warranty mileage.

Add to that the dealer tried to get my wife to get her oil changed every 3K miles when her manual says 7500, plus other examples. I will never buy a Chrysler product again.

Yes, and not to be a C/D apologist, I never liked any of their products either - interiors were always crap, styling and everything screamed cheap, even when it wasn't, but not with the new, French-owned dodge - renault has taken personal offense at the crappy quality and given the designers and engineers money to make fantastic changes - getting in and driving a new Charger and Durango was like getting the Hyundai Genesis sedan when it first come out - it was such a night and day difference from the previous products, as to seem like not coming from the same manufacturer. The quality is so different and better. And what's funnier is to read all the saps on the charger forums who have a 2006-2010 model who say the new model ain't all that great, lol, total sour grapes.

No offense to the 2006-2010 model charger owners, but that car was like driving a mcdonald's playground compared to the 2011, the 2011 is that nice in and out. The new Durango is the same way.

Anyway, I digress. Yes, I remember - F.U. infiniti, and Crown infiniti in Birmingham is a rip-off artist. Do not go. Go somewhere else for your service and sales. Infiniti and Nissan and their G.D. brakes. It is amazing that they cannot fix their crap-*** brake issues over years of awareness of the crappy rotors, soft brake pads, and general fade caused by relatively short amounts of repeated braking. Suck *** brakes.

If you look around, ALL manufactures have had issues with brakes in the last several years. They are going to cheaper materials for rotors so they are warping very easily. Some have attempted correcting it by using less aggressive pads, but that will lead to fade and less braking performance.

I remember when I got the wifes TL back in 2003, Acura was to the point where they were handing out Comptech (yes, aftermarket) rotors under warranty because their stock rotors were on such a huge backorder. She is nicer to her cars than I am, so her rotors lasted a decent amount of time with her driving, about 50K miles. I replaced them with aftermarkets a couple years ago.

I "inherited" a 2001 i30 back in 2005. The brakes were vibrating like mad. The fix? Brembo slotted rotors and Hawk HPS pads. Excellent braking performance, no more warping (and Im not easy on my cars by any means). I sold the car recently with the exact same rotors and zero vibration, so basically 30K miles of hard life and the rotors are still fine. I did have to replace the rear calipers right before I sold it, but Ive had to replace calipers on everything Ive owned at some point, not just Nissan/Infiniti.

If I were going to buy something American, I think Ford would be the only company Id look seriously at. They seem to be doing everything right (even during the bailouts when they didnt really need one). If I didnt want to get rid of my i30 so badly, I would have traded my Frontier for a new F150.

I agree with you to some degree. But the fact is, there is this brake judder TSB which specifically says to replace the rotors. The refused to do this. To me, this is not acceptable. Why do I have to call Infiniti Consumer Affairs to resolve something that is well documented???? That says something about the brand. I don't even bother to call them. I'll just buy something else next time :).

We have 5 Hondas in our family. None of them has any brake problem. We've owned 3 Lexuses. They all have "luxury" brake feel - no vibration + bite well. The Accord that I get to drive once or twice a week has perfectly smooth feel and brake power on original pads and rotors at 70K+ miles :52:

The only issue I expected with Nissan/Infiniti when I purchased the car was rattles. Surprisingly, I've got no rattles what so ever :icon17:

I was just thinking about your brake issue and what crap that is. I have two sets of wheels with two sets of tires that have only been taken off and put on by Discount tire, and Infiniti did not hesitate to turn my rotors when I had 48K miles on my car.

I'm wondering if they have a limit to how many times they will turn them and just won't admit that.

^^ I know. Magnussan act (sp?) is supposed to protect against dealer and manufacturer shenanigans of 'other' shops touching your car and by extension, supposed to extend the repair business safely out to non-dealer shops so that those with warranties can get services at a non-manufacturer branded shop without worrying about voiding warranties as the manufacturer has to prove that the afternarket shop or item caused the issue that would then void the warranty.

None of that occurred with my car. My front rotors or lug torque for the front wheels was never checked, they never had the wheels off. Crown infiniti in Birmingham lied to infiniti, lied to me, and infiniti screwed me.

I just purchased some Centric performance rotors (very good brand) and some hawk ceramic performance low-noise pads and some OEM lug nuts and wheel studs for the front for about 300 bucks. Local Nissan will do the labor for about 100, 150. In the end I get new rotors, nice pads, replace all of the studs and nuts for peace of mind for about 400.00

And then sell the car. lol. My closest decent dealer is 2 hours away. And again, I am fixing a warranty item for cash out of pocket. I sure could have used that 400 for something else. Like part of a down payment on another car.

Are you seriously selling the car after putting new pads and rotors? If I were you, I'd just turn the rotors and sell it.

Anyway, how do you like the new brakes?

Good idea. I may be stuck with this thing a little while. Resurfacing and new OEM pads + labor will cost me 179.95 at the Nissan place, while new centric rotors and hawk pads and labor would be 400.00 - Brakes are not on yet obviously, whatever I do will happen on next wednesday, I am sure either solution is better than what I've got going on now, and I bet new rotors and new pads would be/feel fantastic.

Really, if you want to sell your car, you can have the rotors resurfaced at a local shop for $20 each and keep the pads. It should be another 10-15K miles until you experience the vibration again, of course unless the pads are completed worn.

Completely agree.

They have a very impressive product line right now, far more than what Nissan/Infiniti has to offer.

The only thing that stops me is their past history of (relatively) unreliable cars.

Mustang GT vs 370z? Mustang wins by a mile.

Focus vs Versa/Senta? No contest. Focus wins.

Trucks? Nissan doesn't offer a competitive truck.

a TSB is just a set of instructions on how to correct the issue. The dealer is under no obligation to completely replace parts free of charge.

unfortunate that people have bad experiences at dealerships, they are not all bad lol.

My original dealer was actually very good.

Just a FYI, but Dodge is Italian owned (Fiat). Nissan/Infiniti is French owned (Renault). Although, Fiat has had a much bigger impact on Dodge than Renault has on Nissan.