We're in agreement.

One thing I forgot to say was that IMHO Infiniti waited too long to replace the G, too many years have passed. I drove a 2013 G37 recently (base model) and realized how poor the seats were, how outclassed the base system (no nav) was, how the car just didn't differentiate itself anymore. The number of years that have gone by tells me something is wrong inside the leadership of Infiniti... and also that by just doing a top-hat on the existing chassis, something is wrong with their budget as well.

And now we get as G replacement, which is just the G underneath, with the corporate styling (the jury is out here), a new uprated nav/entertainment system. Funky steering that I'm not sure anybody cares about (we have yet to see what the improvement is for performance drivers) - just like few people cared about rear steer.

While I'm a fan of BMW's turbocharged inline 4 and 6 engines, I'm not a fan of their recent chassis designs. Numb steering, strange handling, poor dynamics, and costs going thru the roof. The M5 is a bust from the point of the classic BMW handling dynamics, and the price is ridiculous. Everything is pointing towards the upcoming M3/M4 going the same way. But at least it doesn't have (according to spy pics) the ridiculous single-piston front brakes!

@jwf...You did make me pull back and look at this from an even broader view because you admittedly are looking at it from a narrow, serious driving enthusiast perspective.

For a carmaker, behind all the marketing and technology, torque, and HP, to the top dogs at these companies, it’s about how many units did we sell this month?

When you look at it in those terms, the G is very competitive within the pricepoint of small luxury performance cars.

3 yrs compiled unit sales data 2010-2012 US sales

BMW 3 series 341,772 units sold
MB C Class 209,797 units sold
Infiniti G series 176,233 units sold
Cadillac CTS 142,506 units sold
Audi A4 108,436 units sold
Acura TL 98,898 units sold
Lexus IS 91,506 units sold

Data source – goodcarbadcar.com

For a car company with roughly 6% of the Luxury Car market in the US, coming in 3rd in unit sales by a wide margin within the strongest segment for luxury carmakers is being very competitive imo.

Now taking this back your point…from a serious driving enthusiast standpoint…I agree they can take the S to another level, but I get the sense the ROI for such a small number of units is dicey for a company the size of Inifiniti… Chasing the performance of lower unit producers like the 335i or the M series can’t be too high of a priority.

If the M (talk about not being competitive, this car doesn’t even sniff the 5 series or E class unit sales) was holding its weight maybe it would allow them to buck up and give the true enthusiast something they can feel good about with the S version of the new Q.

Assuming they get the cosmetics right with the Q, the car will continue to do well in the segment I believe.

This is good information... the numbers initially look good, but of course they've been skewed by the economy over the first of the two years at least. And these simple counts are only 2-dimensional. So this is much more complex. I think this kind of stuff is 4-dimensional, and very much a constantly changing landscape. 3rd dimension is time, and 4th is perception (influenced by marketing).

While the current CTS sales are down now due to the ATS, it will certainly jump once it hits the market later this year (even though arguably it's in a different league than the Q, being larger and M-sized now). Similar situation for the IS, which was dated, but the new model is not and has a wide range of improvements on a new chassis (and interestingly, has the same engines but a new transmission) - full test here. And the C class has some updates too.

There is also the oft-repeated statement by testers of the harshness of the engine in the upper RPM. We've seen no indication of any fix there, and won't know until we get some cars to actually drive. I personally think it's in the engine and not something that could be tuned out by active engine mounts or something of that like.

Marketing fits into this heavily... if the car magazines were to do a test of these cars this summer with the new Q, granted it would likely be with an enthusiast bent, how would the Q compare to the 3 series (probably optioned way up including a sport package), the updated C (and new variations), the ATS (with 3.6 and auto and sport suspension - a known quantity but rates pretty good), and a V-6 supercharged Audi? Mid-pack, I think. I think most editors would realize they are dealing with the same G underneath.

And if the new (and optional) steering on the Q is magnificent, then so much the better. But I fear it will be received as was the rear steer... which for twenty years nobody has seen any major cost/performance advantage.

Another factor is that the Q50 is (currently) the entry-level Infiniti. We have to take into account buyers who want an Infiniti and the status that conveys. They may be willing to accept the missing bits (8-speed, manual tranny option, performance engine option, direct injection, smooth engine, etc) that they may not understand anyway just to get entry into the brand.

The Q50 styling is growing on me... I didn't like it at first.

And good point about the M... it does almost nothing for Infiniti. I'd rather see the M to the Q50 as the A7 is to the A6 - built to a sleek and sporty purpose with a higher range of engines. That would provide some progression and differentiation from the Q to the M. Right now, the two are styled almost identically, and leaving out the pointless V-8, the only real difference is a very slight size difference.

CTS...agreed. Probably more direct competition with the 5 series/Eclass/GS/A6...as mentioned I like what they're doing with the ATS and the early numbers are not bad. I still prefer the smoother Euro body over the sharp/angular Caddy, but the ATS makes me look twice every time I see one. Underneath the car is to be respected already and the V is highly anticipated by the auto media.

You're right...if the Q50/60 has no real refinements under the skin it might taking a middle of the pack position with the newer offerings. I don't think that will hurt the showroom if the looks are a hit.

I have to admit, the Q50 (should be a G50) is growing on me as well, still don't really care much for the front grill/headlight integration.

M...good point on the direction. That segment is killing them...big units there and MB and BMW dominate, along with Audi...I would quit dappling around and simply target the 5 series bimmer...the current M is too small for that buyer imo.

I work at Nissan in Smyrna TN and we build the JX and pathfinder. It's been pointless switching the names

Elaborate. Are they essentially identical? I actually like the Pathfinder and have considered it as a replacement for my Pilot in a couple of years. I just hope the reliability is in the same arena as the Pilot, which is legendary in this respect.

Here we are a couple of months after the introduction of the replacement to the G37 sedan... and it's so disappointing. The trick steering is numb, and the electronic "aids" are just in the way. The only half-way good thing is the engine and trans, which are all but identical (since it is the same chassis underneath, the Q is just a re-skin) and post identical acceleration times.

Meanwhile, the BMW 3 series has gotten a bit numb itself... all the famous BMW dynamics are being toned down. But it's the Caddy ATS that has taken the star position. It's not perfect, but it's a far better sports sedan than the Q50 - I'm sorry to say.

I have a g37 coupe, and a 2013 ATS lease. Both cars are amazing and idk if the G sedan can even compete with the ATS.

The G sedan and the ATS are from two different ages.. so are not a fair comparison (never mind the zombie G that will still be sold for another year plus alongside the Q50). The ATS isn't perfect, but it is what the replacement for the G could have been if Infiniti had spent any real money on it.

New Q60 confirmed with timeframe before 2018! Wtf. I have a 2008 that I purchased in 2007. If they wait that long some people might jump ship to other brands

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11401156...del-and-luxury

Here is what I think.

Q30 end of 2014/ early 2015 as 2015 model year

Q60 mid to end of 2015 as a 2016 model year.

QX70 early 2016 as a 2016 model

Q50/Q70 High performance end of 2016 as a 2017 Model year

Halo Car 2017 as a 2018 car