Is FI realistic for 7AT AWD models?
06-03-2018, 09:45 PM
#1
Registered Member
Thread Starter
Is FI realistic for 7AT AWD models?
With a conservative tune with no more than about 415 ft lb torque?
I've come across only one G37 AWD with a supercharger and I believe he had a built motor and or tranny. Red four door. I've seen a few 5AT AWDs with FI one turbo a few supercharged G35s that eventually needed rebuilt motors.
The few G37X builds I see on here have gone full bolt on. I'm waiting to here if the SOHO Motorsports VHR single turbo kit fits AWD models. Apparently SOHO Motorsports put the Topgunz Supercharger on a 2009 G37 which comes with 7AT.
Am I correct in thinking most FI kits are universal? I'd like some input from the producer of the Topgunz kit or those knowledgeable with it. Want to run that kit or the SOHO Motorsports single turbo kit (we shall see).
I've come across only one G37 AWD with a supercharger and I believe he had a built motor and or tranny. Red four door. I've seen a few 5AT AWDs with FI one turbo a few supercharged G35s that eventually needed rebuilt motors.
The few G37X builds I see on here have gone full bolt on. I'm waiting to here if the SOHO Motorsports VHR single turbo kit fits AWD models. Apparently SOHO Motorsports put the Topgunz Supercharger on a 2009 G37 which comes with 7AT.
Am I correct in thinking most FI kits are universal? I'd like some input from the producer of the Topgunz kit or those knowledgeable with it. Want to run that kit or the SOHO Motorsports single turbo kit (we shall see).
06-04-2018, 10:10 AM
#3
Registered Member
Thread Starter
Also found out that many single turbo kits won't work on AWD models and possibly not the new SOHO Motorsports kit because the turbo is run on passenger exhaust manifold which is where the transfer case is. GTM TT kit will fit though and has been done. I don't foresee any fitment issues with Topgunz Supercharger though, but at this point I'd rather keep my daily driver reliable and get a new Q50.
What puzzles me is I believe we have the same tranny as the VR30 cars, but I believe they have an R200 differential and as of now they have no Limited Slip options. If we do have the same tranny as VR30 cars I don't know how some tuned cars are handling 500 ft lb of torque without breaking something or shortening longevity. Either way a VR30 seems like the best option if you want to use this platform.
06-04-2018, 10:19 PM
#6
FI is a crapshoot. Motor or trans you better have stacks for when something goes to heck and if you have AWD then more stacks because of more stuff to go wrong. 5k to 7k to make the 7AT hold up to +400wtq. Ridiculous really.
There aren't that many AWD FI builds because of the cost to do it. It strains financial logic to sink that much into a G when there are other platforms that do it with better dollar to hp ratio. So it's not about money for those that go FI, it's other ideas whatever they may be. After reading everything I can find over the last few years about doing FI to my AWD coupe, I'm convinced that you can't pull it off for less than 13k. That is a lot of coin for the average Joe. Especially if you have kids and a wife.
There aren't that many AWD FI builds because of the cost to do it. It strains financial logic to sink that much into a G when there are other platforms that do it with better dollar to hp ratio. So it's not about money for those that go FI, it's other ideas whatever they may be. After reading everything I can find over the last few years about doing FI to my AWD coupe, I'm convinced that you can't pull it off for less than 13k. That is a lot of coin for the average Joe. Especially if you have kids and a wife.
06-04-2018, 10:36 PM
#7
83% failure rate for 7AT? I have seen reports of some slipping in certain gears, but I haven't seen outright 7AT failures (I don't doubt, I just haven't seen it yet because I am new to this platform). The slipping 7ATs have been mostly turbo. I have also seen people report shift flares on stock cars too.
I would think a SC 7AT AWD car would hold up fine.
Even if you did have to source a tougher 7AT, what's so bad about that? What platform would be better? Honestly, who makes an AWD coupe that can be modified? BMW? right there, you are definitely talking more money than a fully built G coupe. Subaru? They have their own slew of problems. I would say GolfR is the *best* candidate for AWD modding, IMO.
Anyways, the VR30 uses the 7AT, the Titan and Armada, at 6k pounds use this 7AT. I am SURE you could easily find a way to resolve any durability issues on the 7AT as it is used in many more demanding applications than our older coupes.
Anyways, I just can't think of an AWD coupe that would be better suited, dollar-to-dollar, than the FM cars???? The relatively new Lexus RC AWD coupes, being typical Toyota, likely won't tolerate mods near as well as the FM coupes.
I would think a SC 7AT AWD car would hold up fine.
Even if you did have to source a tougher 7AT, what's so bad about that? What platform would be better? Honestly, who makes an AWD coupe that can be modified? BMW? right there, you are definitely talking more money than a fully built G coupe. Subaru? They have their own slew of problems. I would say GolfR is the *best* candidate for AWD modding, IMO.
Anyways, the VR30 uses the 7AT, the Titan and Armada, at 6k pounds use this 7AT. I am SURE you could easily find a way to resolve any durability issues on the 7AT as it is used in many more demanding applications than our older coupes.
Anyways, I just can't think of an AWD coupe that would be better suited, dollar-to-dollar, than the FM cars???? The relatively new Lexus RC AWD coupes, being typical Toyota, likely won't tolerate mods near as well as the FM coupes.
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RMB5190 (06-05-2018)
06-05-2018, 02:07 PM
#11
Confirming zer099,
G has the JR710E; otherwise known as the re7r01a.
I don't think you have to go b@lls out to build the transmission that much. 5-7k is the bullet proof build which is somewhat overkill IMO if you're under 700whp. At that point, you're going all out engine rebuilds. I've talked to a shop and their experience was the VQ was pretty rock solid at 400-425 whp on stock engine internals.
Anyways, I can't see why clutch packs, valve bodies and additional cooling wouldn't let you run 400-450 whp. With those, you're looking at $1,500 in parts vs. $5k. From what I've read on the Z forums, gears 1-4 are more than capable of handling boost while stock; it's 5-7 that will crap out on you.
G has the JR710E; otherwise known as the re7r01a.
I don't think you have to go b@lls out to build the transmission that much. 5-7k is the bullet proof build which is somewhat overkill IMO if you're under 700whp. At that point, you're going all out engine rebuilds. I've talked to a shop and their experience was the VQ was pretty rock solid at 400-425 whp on stock engine internals.
Anyways, I can't see why clutch packs, valve bodies and additional cooling wouldn't let you run 400-450 whp. With those, you're looking at $1,500 in parts vs. $5k. From what I've read on the Z forums, gears 1-4 are more than capable of handling boost while stock; it's 5-7 that will crap out on you.
06-05-2018, 02:22 PM
#13
I threw-out the GolfR and Subaru because where I live, AWD is a HUGE benefit. Yeah I know they are not coupes, but I'd consider a Golf R before I even let a super-powerful RWD car cross my mind.
I actually also own a (JB4) tuned 2016 GTI, and at 20k miles, or 15k miles after tuning it, the DSG transmission failed on me. I recently got my car back, it's OK now and the tune has been removed, but the DSG was *supposed* to be super-durable. I was only running +70hp/+100tq which is less than what most people like to run. So, I am in no rush to "break" my INFINITI, but it is the cost of the game. Which brings me back to, what AWD coupe would seriously be better to tune? I don't think the INIFINITI AWD coupe is so bad. BMW is just a PITA to own after warranty. At least our cars you'd only look at a few things breaking, not worrying about the whole damn car. Did I mention that my GTI was in the shop 6 times prior to the DSG failing? It is German, after all. My 2007 Titan has only needed to go in once....exhaust tip rusted off. Hope to have as much luck with my INFINITI AWD coupe.
So, if looking for good baseline reliability in an AWD coupe, pretty much just leaves the Lexus RC350 AWD and the G37x/Q60 AWD. I am quite certain the Lexus will not like any kind of substantial efforts to make more power, and there is less support?
Additionally the low resale value of these cars makes them good candidates for tuning. You can get into a good, clean G37xS for $12k around here. Put $18k into is still less than the MSRP on my GTI.... I mean, no car ever "makes money" on mods!
I actually also own a (JB4) tuned 2016 GTI, and at 20k miles, or 15k miles after tuning it, the DSG transmission failed on me. I recently got my car back, it's OK now and the tune has been removed, but the DSG was *supposed* to be super-durable. I was only running +70hp/+100tq which is less than what most people like to run. So, I am in no rush to "break" my INFINITI, but it is the cost of the game. Which brings me back to, what AWD coupe would seriously be better to tune? I don't think the INIFINITI AWD coupe is so bad. BMW is just a PITA to own after warranty. At least our cars you'd only look at a few things breaking, not worrying about the whole damn car. Did I mention that my GTI was in the shop 6 times prior to the DSG failing? It is German, after all. My 2007 Titan has only needed to go in once....exhaust tip rusted off. Hope to have as much luck with my INFINITI AWD coupe.
So, if looking for good baseline reliability in an AWD coupe, pretty much just leaves the Lexus RC350 AWD and the G37x/Q60 AWD. I am quite certain the Lexus will not like any kind of substantial efforts to make more power, and there is less support?
Additionally the low resale value of these cars makes them good candidates for tuning. You can get into a good, clean G37xS for $12k around here. Put $18k into is still less than the MSRP on my GTI.... I mean, no car ever "makes money" on mods!
06-05-2018, 03:55 PM
#14
The next weak point in the AWD system is the transfer-case. It uses pretty much the same electric controlled coupling as the GT-R but sadly sits in its own little uncooled case where it does overheat after a bit and reverts to straight RWD until it cools down. Depending on your goals, these are all things to keep in mind.
And there are a couple twin turbo setups that clear the front diff, as well as you could go the supercharger route. The new whipple setup from RJM would definitely rock with our AWD traction, but you would need to build the tranny to hold.
The tranny is a weak spot for almost all cars when building them. Most factory trannies are matched to a car with only a 10-15% tolerance for torque more than what the engine is rated for. So regardless of what car you want to build the tranny will most likely need to be addressed. Even in a manual, you are going to need a better clutch. Exedy's high friction plates (EFK276HP1) are fairly cheap. Want to go for gold replace your flex plate and service your valve body.
Is FI realistic on the AWD? Of course it is. People have done it. It's not that much more to do then on a manual, and the only difference with it being done on a auto is we have a front diff. There are tons of tuned FI auto 370zs out there. You get what you pay for or what you put into it.
In my opinion the best thing we (as AWD owners) could do to help out systems is figure out or convince someone to allow both our TCU to be reprogrammed to our needs and also get control of our AWD controller, because honestly if we could adjust and tune both those our cars would be beast on the track.
And there are a couple twin turbo setups that clear the front diff, as well as you could go the supercharger route. The new whipple setup from RJM would definitely rock with our AWD traction, but you would need to build the tranny to hold.
The tranny is a weak spot for almost all cars when building them. Most factory trannies are matched to a car with only a 10-15% tolerance for torque more than what the engine is rated for. So regardless of what car you want to build the tranny will most likely need to be addressed. Even in a manual, you are going to need a better clutch. Exedy's high friction plates (EFK276HP1) are fairly cheap. Want to go for gold replace your flex plate and service your valve body.
Is FI realistic on the AWD? Of course it is. People have done it. It's not that much more to do then on a manual, and the only difference with it being done on a auto is we have a front diff. There are tons of tuned FI auto 370zs out there. You get what you pay for or what you put into it.
In my opinion the best thing we (as AWD owners) could do to help out systems is figure out or convince someone to allow both our TCU to be reprogrammed to our needs and also get control of our AWD controller, because honestly if we could adjust and tune both those our cars would be beast on the track.
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MurderdogQ (06-14-2019)