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Old 11-20-2008, 01:31 PM   #1
t-bone1924
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ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator (amended 9/3/08)

I spoke with Infiniti Consumer Affairs and was informed of the following regarding this issue:

1) The engine noise from this issue is NOT causing any engine harm and continuing to drive with this noise will NOT cause any engine damage.

2) In addition to the reprogramming of the ECM as called for in the TSB, adding the special (expensive/$12 per qt) ester oil will stop the noise.

3) Infiniti will only pay for the first addition of the ester oil under warranty as per the TSB. For future oil changes, the additional cost will be on the customer.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:35 PM   #2
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Thanks for the update t-bone... That ester oil is really $12/qt?! Dayum... Way overpriced IMO... I'm running Eneos 5W-30 Full Synthetic and have had ZERO issues of the actuator sound since I changed to it... So you might wanna just convert to Full Synthetic blend after your first free oil change by Infiniti... Yust my 25 cents...
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by gamedog View Post
Thanks for the update t-bone... That ester oil is really $12/qt?! Dayum... Way overpriced IMO... I'm running Eneos 5W-30 Full Synthetic and have had ZERO issues of the actuator sound since I changed to it... So you might wanna just convert to Full Synthetic blend after your first free oil change by Infiniti... Yust my 25 cents...
fully agreed, i have been using 5-30 Eneos Full syn since 1K miles and i got 20K on my car with no noises what so ever.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:13 PM   #4
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There are posts about Nissan's European Patent Application and published technical paper which provide more detail about the Nissan Ester oil.
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:17 AM   #5
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You are correct about the bulletin !! It requires a ECM reprogram and a "special" oil which is a 5w3o ESTER oil that solves the problem. I will let you in on a little secret...........if you take your car in at or around your next oil change and complain about the noise they will do a oil change under warranty with the "special" ESTER oil FREE!!! The next one is on you !!
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infiniti Esc View Post
You are correct about the bulletin !! It requires a ECM reprogram and a "special" oil which is a 5w3o ESTER oil that solves the problem. I will let you in on a little secret...........if you take your car in at or around your next oil change and complain about the noise they will do a oil change under warranty with the "special" ESTER oil FREE!!! The next one is on you !!
But, Infiniti's "official" position is that they can only guarantee the "noise" won't return if you keep using this oil (once you start using the Nissan Ester oil). Getting a free Nissan Ester oil change under warranty is like the pusher giving you your first fix free. Once you're hooked you have to keep going back for the expensive stuff.

P.S. Read Nissan's European Patent Application and VVEL tech paper regarding the Nissan Ester oil. Then, decided for yourself if you want or need it.

P.P.S. The Nissan Ester oil, no matter what they name it, is not a "special" Ester oil. The Nissan European Patent Application explains everything.

Last edited by notalk; 11-22-2008 at 12:02 PM..
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notalk View Post
But, Infiniti's "official" position is that they can only guarantee the "noise" won't return if you keep using this oil (once you start using the Nissan Ester oil). Getting a free Nissan Ester oil change under warranty is like the pusher giving you your first fix free. Once you're hooked you have to keep going back for the expensive stuff.

P.S. Read Nissan's European Patent Application and VVEL tech paper regarding the Nissan Ester oil. Then, decided for yourself if you want or need it.

P.P.S. The Nissan Ester oil, no matter what they name it, is not a "special" Ester oil. The Nissan European Patent Application explains everything.

You make a valid point. But if you want to fix the noise then "Infiniti" wants you to use the ESTER 5W30 oil according to the TSB/"official fix"
I'm simply trying to share the information with all of you
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Old 11-22-2008, 02:31 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Infiniti Esc View Post
You make a valid point. But if you want to fix the noise then "Infiniti" wants you to use the ESTER 5W30 oil according to the TSB/"official fix"
I'm simply trying to share the information with all of you
Thank you. And, I'm simply trying to point you in the direction of doing your own research and your own thinking.

For example, the Nissan Ester oil, per the European Patent Application, does not have any additional or greater quantity of ester(s) than the non-Ester Nissan conventional motor oil. The Nissan Ester oil claims to provide improved fuel economy because of certain carbon based additives which reduce friction over the VVEL diamond-like coating. If you read the materials, and the posts from owners who had the TSB performed without the Ester oil change, you might conclude the Nissan Ester oil is a different form of low friction fuel economy oil and has no real benefit to the VVEL software update. Also, if you read the posts from owners who use an ester based synthetic, you might conclude the ester based synthetics do a lot to quiet the inherent ticking in our engine. Even owners using PAO based synthetics report reduced ticking.

P.S. When the TSB originally came out, before Nissan released their Ester oil, there was no mention of an oil change. Only after Nissan released the Ester oil (and, according the European Patent Application, the Ester oil has been available for two years now but only released about three months by Nissan), was the TSB revised to include the Ester oil change. Maybe, just maybe, some Infiniti marketing person jumped on this as a way to get/force/make people buy the Nissan Ester oil for oil changes down the road.

Last edited by notalk; 11-22-2008 at 02:41 PM..
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Old 11-22-2008, 02:47 PM   #9
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^^^You could be right it might be a marketing scam ??? but from what I understand/here once you change to the "ESTER OIL" they "RECOMMEND" that you stay with it.
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Old 11-22-2008, 02:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Infiniti Esc View Post
^^^You could be right it might be a marketing scam ??? but from what I understand/here once you change to the "ESTER OIL" they "RECOMMEND" that you stay with it.
Yes, I also understand that Infiniti wants you to stay with the Nissan Ester oil once you use it (see my post above about getting your first fix for free).

I apologize for not realizing you are an Infiniti line tech (until I read you muffler posts). I understand you are passing along information obtained from Infiniti. FWIW, however, the oil industry, having read Nissan's European Patent Application and VVEL tech paper (I have links to both in other posts about the Ester oil and this TSB) take a different view of what this oil does than does Nissan's marketing people. Heck, even Infiniti's VVEL tech paper contradicts the Ester oil marketing.

Knowing that you are a line tech, I will not suggest that you actually read the documents. I thank you for pointing out the "secret". I only suggest there might be more than one side to all of this.

Last edited by notalk; 11-23-2008 at 11:55 AM..
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notalk View Post
Yes, I also understand that Infiniti wants you to stay with the Nissan Ester oil once you use it (see my post above about getting your first fix for free).

I apologize for not realizing you are an Infiniti line tech (until I read you muffler posts). I understand you are passing along information obtained from Infiniti. FWIW, however, the oil industry, having read Nissan's European Patent Application and VVEL tech paper (I have links to both in other posts about the Ester oil and this TSB) take a different view of what this oil does than does Nissan's marketing people. Heck, even Infiniti's VVEL tech paper contradicts the Ester oil marketing.

Knowing that you are a line tech, I will not suggest that you actually read the documents. I thank you for pointing out the "secret". I only suggest there might be more than side to all of this.


I couldn't agree with you more !! BTW I am not a tech anymore I made the switich to managment. But was a tech for infiniti/nissan for over 10 years.
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Old 11-26-2008, 03:29 AM   #12
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I just had my oil (Ester) change two days ago for free and the ECM reprogrammed. I did not have the valve noise problem during operation/idling, but during cold start-up. I must admit that the adjustment of the ECM feels like it had taken a bit out of the vehicles' performance, the throttle doesn't response as quick like it use to (feels as if torque is less). Specifically, lower RPMs up to 3000. Almost like the timing was being retarded... Any one have that problem? The valve tap/knock during cold start-up had not return(indefinitely I hope?!).

Last edited by anh3; 11-26-2008 at 04:11 AM..
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:09 PM   #13
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I just had my oil (Ester) change two days ago for free and the ECM reprogrammed. I did not have the valve noise problem during operation/idling, but during cold start-up. I must admit that the adjustment of the ECM feels like it had taken a bit out of the vehicles' performance, the throttle doesn't response as quick like it use to (feels as if torque is less). Specifically, lower RPMs up to 3000. Almost like the timing was being retarded... Any one have that problem? The valve tap/knock during cold start-up had not return(indefinitely I hope?!).

I have heard similar complaints like yours and I think (I could be wrong) that the engaugement point as well as the amount of advance is what is changed when they do the reprogram to the ECM.
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:57 AM   #14
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I have heard similar complaints like yours and I think (I could be wrong) that the engaugement point as well as the amount of advance is what is changed when they do the reprogram to the ECM.
thanks. Do you know then if they will reprogram it back or at least close to the orginal setting? What do most of the owners in here do, leave it at the new TSB setting or had it programed back/close to the oringal setting?
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Old 11-27-2008, 04:47 AM   #15
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doesn't the car have to re-learn for a bit after reprograming the ECM?
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Old 11-27-2008, 04:47 AM
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