First Impressions: Q50 Red Sport 400 Test Drive
05-12-2016, 02:46 AM
#46
Amazing write-up!! You've definitely piqued my interest, but I would love to see a comparison to an EcuTek tuned G37xS 7AT. I'm just about to finish up with Sebastian, and my car is a different animal altogether. I'm beyond happy with the progress and, being that she's paid off, in no hurry to jump back into car payments. I'll check my local dealer to see if I can schedule a test drive.
In any case, I'm very appreciative of your feedback!! Many thanks!!
In any case, I'm very appreciative of your feedback!! Many thanks!!
great photos and reviews, thanks! i'll be heading to my local dealer soon to check out the RS400. all we seem to have locally is the RS 400 or the base 2.0T models, no 300hp versions. i am told that supply of RS400 are very limited with my dealers only getting 5-6 each this year. prices are ~$60k CAD for the RS400 and ~$47k for 2.0T. i'm guessing the 300hp versions will be ~$53k CAD. or you can get a '15 3.7 for $40k, same body etc.
i will say i am a bit confused with Infiniti's strategy these days. the carry-over coupe/verts are MY'15 units - presumably to clear out remaining supplies. we'll be getting the new Q60 coupe as a MY'17 sometime later this year. at the same time, Infiniti is now releasing the MY'16 Q50 sedan half a year into 2016 calendar year, and only some of the model range is available. why not just wait a couple more months and launch the model line as a MY'17?
i also wonder how long until the Q50 undergoes the cosmetic knife for a mid-cycle refresh. Infiniti has a history of staggering powertrain and cosmetic refreshes that really mixes up the models and is confusing. i know that i'm not going to get a 6MT Q50 sedan anytime soon (which is a problem and may force me to an Audi/BMW, booo), but my thought would be if i wanted to stay Infiniti to wait for the cosmetic refresh updates that will surely follow in a year or two to match the powertrain updates.
consider the G/Q sedan since 2003:
2003: new rear drive sedan with "260hp" (yeah, right) 3.5L, doggy-door trunk lid
2003.5: cosmetic update to trunk lid (no more doggy door), 6MT Aero model now available
2004: AWD available
2005: mid-cycle refresh with cosmetic and interior changes, now rated at 280hp, 6MT comes with rev-up 298hp
2006: carry over from 2005 (only year so far of no changes)
2007: new body style, new interior, new 306hp engine, still called G35
2008: carry over from 2007
2009: mid-cycle powertrain refresh, now called G37, using '08 coupe's 3.7L, similar body/interior as '08 sedan (except for trunk spoiler on S models). this model only available for one year between '08 G35 and refreshed '10 model.
2010: mid-cycle cosmetic refresh with new front/rear bumpers and minor interior changes
2011-2013: essentially unchanged as we await the Q50 (i am intentionally ignoring the G25 model)
2014: new body style & interior for Q50 model, Q40 model line limited to certain models. all models use carry-over powertrain.
half-way through 2016: mid-cycle powertrain refresh with 2l & 3l turbos, carry-over body & interior (for most part), plenty of 3.7L Q50's still available
2017: cosmetic refresh? carry over from MY'16? this would align with what Infiniti did after MY'09.
2018: cosmetic refresh almost a certainty???
i will say i am a bit confused with Infiniti's strategy these days. the carry-over coupe/verts are MY'15 units - presumably to clear out remaining supplies. we'll be getting the new Q60 coupe as a MY'17 sometime later this year. at the same time, Infiniti is now releasing the MY'16 Q50 sedan half a year into 2016 calendar year, and only some of the model range is available. why not just wait a couple more months and launch the model line as a MY'17?
i also wonder how long until the Q50 undergoes the cosmetic knife for a mid-cycle refresh. Infiniti has a history of staggering powertrain and cosmetic refreshes that really mixes up the models and is confusing. i know that i'm not going to get a 6MT Q50 sedan anytime soon (which is a problem and may force me to an Audi/BMW, booo), but my thought would be if i wanted to stay Infiniti to wait for the cosmetic refresh updates that will surely follow in a year or two to match the powertrain updates.
consider the G/Q sedan since 2003:
2003: new rear drive sedan with "260hp" (yeah, right) 3.5L, doggy-door trunk lid
2003.5: cosmetic update to trunk lid (no more doggy door), 6MT Aero model now available
2004: AWD available
2005: mid-cycle refresh with cosmetic and interior changes, now rated at 280hp, 6MT comes with rev-up 298hp
2006: carry over from 2005 (only year so far of no changes)
2007: new body style, new interior, new 306hp engine, still called G35
2008: carry over from 2007
2009: mid-cycle powertrain refresh, now called G37, using '08 coupe's 3.7L, similar body/interior as '08 sedan (except for trunk spoiler on S models). this model only available for one year between '08 G35 and refreshed '10 model.
2010: mid-cycle cosmetic refresh with new front/rear bumpers and minor interior changes
2011-2013: essentially unchanged as we await the Q50 (i am intentionally ignoring the G25 model)
2014: new body style & interior for Q50 model, Q40 model line limited to certain models. all models use carry-over powertrain.
half-way through 2016: mid-cycle powertrain refresh with 2l & 3l turbos, carry-over body & interior (for most part), plenty of 3.7L Q50's still available
2017: cosmetic refresh? carry over from MY'16? this would align with what Infiniti did after MY'09.
2018: cosmetic refresh almost a certainty???
I'm predicting that we'll see a cosmetic refresh next year for the Q50. In '09 they changed the powertrain which was followed by the cosmetic refresh for '10. I'm not sure why they do it that way but going from past history, the powertrain refresh always comes at about the 3rd year into the model's life cycle and the cosmetic seems to be year 4. I'm not sure why they do that...would be interesting to have some perspective from Infiniti on that but doubtful that we'll ever get that.
I'm thinking the 3.0tt should be mod friendly. Looking at the added complications of twin turbos and added cost of like $10K all for 72 more hp? Do you think they were looking to future proof in this motor starting at only 300 / 400hp? Maybe a Rouge / IPL 3.0tt model next?
They have more options for power bumps than they ever have before. However, judging from the fact that they're using optical sensors to monitor the turbines tells me that particular turbo is close to it's full output.
My prediction is that we'll eventually see the 3.0L VR30DDTT paired with an electric motor and that would fit the bill for an IPL high end halo model(s). I'll also go out on a limb and say that I think they will also pair the 2.0L 4 cylinder with and electric motor. The 2025 CAFE standards are ever looming and they're strict. The only way they're going to get there is with added electrification. The technology is quite proven in the M37h/Q70h and Q50h. I was impressed with how quickly they were able to pair an electric motor to the 3.5L V6 in the M37h and the double clutch wizardry that makes it all play nicely.
I think variants of this motor will be in everything, including the QX80. Developing a modular motor like the VR30DDTT and putting it in everything is a fantastic way to leverage economies of scale.
I do surely believe that this VR family is very over built. You got to remember, this is a REPLACEMENT for the legendary work horse VQ. This is the engine that Infinite will rest it's shoulders on. Like the GM 3000 series, the LS series, the Honda J, B, D, Etc.
The originally VR38 was in crackable and untunable for the first what, 6 months? Now you can drop $4000 in Bolton's and get a good boost in power. This is a modular engine design just like I predicted last year when I broke the news that we were getting a new engine family.
I bet its the same one that is in that LMGTR, the Q80 concept and so on. Probably be in the next road going GTR as well.
The originally VR38 was in crackable and untunable for the first what, 6 months? Now you can drop $4000 in Bolton's and get a good boost in power. This is a modular engine design just like I predicted last year when I broke the news that we were getting a new engine family.
I bet its the same one that is in that LMGTR, the Q80 concept and so on. Probably be in the next road going GTR as well.
I was betting that the Le Mans GT-R was running this motor as well. I think the whole front-wheel drive thing kind of crippled that car out of the gate. Kudos to Nissan for going against the grain, but that didn't work out too well for them. I also think that faux paux of the Le Mans has delayed development of the R36 GT-R.
I'm noticing that I'm arriving at the same conclusions as you are for a lot of the theories and speculation we've had discussions on. They seem to be pretty accurate and I would venture to guess you've been observing Nissan/Infiniti for many years now.
So my good friend is a foreman at an Infiniti Dealership. He recently did his training on the engine, and according to him, it has incredible potential. Its actually more advanced than the current GTR motor in some ways. It is really detuned, you can actually bring it up quite a bit in power with the stock setup, just by changing the calibration. I need to spend some more time talking to him, get more insight.
05-12-2016, 03:06 AM
#47
For more information an analysis on the VR30DDTT engine and it's aftermarket potential check out the ConceptZPerformance blog here: https://conceptzperformance.com/blog...-turbo-engine/
Nick over at ConceptZ had done a great, two-part technical deep dive on Garrett Turbos if you guys are interested and are car nerds like me (which I suspect you are). It's a very interesting read on turbo technology.
Part 1:
https://conceptzperformance.com/blog...nclature-more/
Part 2:
https://conceptzperformance.com/blog...e-more-part-2/
In addition, the Stillen blog has some interesting analysis and speculation on what could lie in wait for the aftermarket development around this motor.
An Aftermarket Perspective for the VR30DDTT:
https://blog.stillen.com/2015/12/aft...twin-turbo-v6/
600hp VR30 engine: Fact or Fantasy:
https://blog.stillen.com/2016/04/600...ct-or-fantasy/
They're all very interesting reads. I included the links on the Garrett turbos because I found it interesting since the VR30 is TT'd. Enjoy!
Nick over at ConceptZ had done a great, two-part technical deep dive on Garrett Turbos if you guys are interested and are car nerds like me (which I suspect you are). It's a very interesting read on turbo technology.
Part 1:
https://conceptzperformance.com/blog...nclature-more/
Part 2:
https://conceptzperformance.com/blog...e-more-part-2/
In addition, the Stillen blog has some interesting analysis and speculation on what could lie in wait for the aftermarket development around this motor.
An Aftermarket Perspective for the VR30DDTT:
https://blog.stillen.com/2015/12/aft...twin-turbo-v6/
600hp VR30 engine: Fact or Fantasy:
https://blog.stillen.com/2016/04/600...ct-or-fantasy/
They're all very interesting reads. I included the links on the Garrett turbos because I found it interesting since the VR30 is TT'd. Enjoy!
05-12-2016, 06:13 AM
#48
No problem! Glad to see all the interest in the new '16 and that you enjoyed the review! I think it's going to be a beast of a motor for sure. I was going to trade for a '15 Q50 but am keeping my G. No car payments will be nice! How do you like your EcuTek tune? I'm in the middle of having an UPRev tune done myself.
I had a buddy drive her, without telling him about the tune, and he walked away shocked, but very impressed. He was surprised at the power, commenting on how well it pulled through the powerband and how it felt force induced. I'll take that! Until I told him, he thought it was due to the CAI and CBE!
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twin_snails (05-12-2016)
05-13-2016, 04:47 PM
#52
Oddly enough, I've seen nothing of the sort in any review so far...just guestimates and none of the magazines have reported anything. Maybe they're under some kind of embargo-- that seems dumb because the car is out in the wild, albeit only a few of them.
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Boomer-Bob (05-14-2016)
05-13-2016, 11:53 PM
#53
so i stopped by my local dealer today and tested both the 300hp (silver S) and 400hp (red S) back-to-back. without being captain obvious, let's just say the power delivery of both was night and day to my G37S 6MT. of course the 7AT to 6MT accounts for some of the difference, but there is no question that both cars have a bunch of grunt down low.
i was able to ring out the RS400 more than the 300hp, and both cars had very few kms on them. i was the first to drive the 300hp, and the RS400 only had 43kms on it, i was the 2nd tester. note: the first guy somehow managed to curb a rim! apparently he is a GTR owner looking for a sedan.
i have to say, the 300hp was no slouch. driving them both back to back indicated a bit of an edge to the RS 400 past 3k rpm but it didn't feel 33.3% stronger. the punch was impressive and no obvious boost lag. i assume the turbos are sequential to help. i can understand why the 300hp will be the volume seller. RS400 had nicer rims but otherwise appeared the same as the 300hp except for the colour of the S.
we only get AWD is Canada which is a shame, and of course no 6MT. so our spec sheet shows no VLSD. i hope the RWD keeps that in the US. i asked the dealer if the new Q60 will be 6MT and he didn't know. the Q50 definitely felt heavier than my G37, but fortunately it didn't have the DAS steering even if it has been improved. i actually liked the 7AT in manual mode holding gears and the shifts were decently crisp. exhaust note in the RS400 was throatier but both were much more subdued than my custom cat-back, obviously. less drone too even with my vibrant resonators.
not sure about the US market, but in Canada the best deal is likely the 300hp with Premium and Sport packages, skip the tech and driver assistance pkgs. i'll keep my red S from my G37 and slap that on. J/K.
i was able to get some handy paperwork from the dealer that is clearly not meant for public consumption. it shows a model, mix (% of each model produced), and MSRP as well as a 'Gradewalk' which looks like a Gantt chart of the Q50 lineup. some info was missing, however. model code for the 300hp is Q4XL76 and the RS400 is Q4XS76, each with various 'options groups'. i'm guessing the '4X' part is AWD which is mandatory in Canada.
all Q50's are assembled in Japan. even the 2.0T engine is sent over from Tennessee to Japan for final assembly. up here we are looking at max 3 month lead time for custom orders. and the dealer is sure that cosmetic mid-cycle refresh is due for MY18.
i was able to ring out the RS400 more than the 300hp, and both cars had very few kms on them. i was the first to drive the 300hp, and the RS400 only had 43kms on it, i was the 2nd tester. note: the first guy somehow managed to curb a rim! apparently he is a GTR owner looking for a sedan.
i have to say, the 300hp was no slouch. driving them both back to back indicated a bit of an edge to the RS 400 past 3k rpm but it didn't feel 33.3% stronger. the punch was impressive and no obvious boost lag. i assume the turbos are sequential to help. i can understand why the 300hp will be the volume seller. RS400 had nicer rims but otherwise appeared the same as the 300hp except for the colour of the S.
we only get AWD is Canada which is a shame, and of course no 6MT. so our spec sheet shows no VLSD. i hope the RWD keeps that in the US. i asked the dealer if the new Q60 will be 6MT and he didn't know. the Q50 definitely felt heavier than my G37, but fortunately it didn't have the DAS steering even if it has been improved. i actually liked the 7AT in manual mode holding gears and the shifts were decently crisp. exhaust note in the RS400 was throatier but both were much more subdued than my custom cat-back, obviously. less drone too even with my vibrant resonators.
not sure about the US market, but in Canada the best deal is likely the 300hp with Premium and Sport packages, skip the tech and driver assistance pkgs. i'll keep my red S from my G37 and slap that on. J/K.
i was able to get some handy paperwork from the dealer that is clearly not meant for public consumption. it shows a model, mix (% of each model produced), and MSRP as well as a 'Gradewalk' which looks like a Gantt chart of the Q50 lineup. some info was missing, however. model code for the 300hp is Q4XL76 and the RS400 is Q4XS76, each with various 'options groups'. i'm guessing the '4X' part is AWD which is mandatory in Canada.
all Q50's are assembled in Japan. even the 2.0T engine is sent over from Tennessee to Japan for final assembly. up here we are looking at max 3 month lead time for custom orders. and the dealer is sure that cosmetic mid-cycle refresh is due for MY18.
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ShuuraRG (05-14-2016),
twin_snails (06-06-2021)
05-14-2016, 09:37 AM
#54
so i stopped by my local dealer today and tested both the 300hp (silver S) and 400hp (red S) back-to-back. without being captain obvious, let's just say the power delivery of both was night and day to my G37S 6MT. of course the 7AT to 6MT accounts for some of the difference, but there is no question that both cars have a bunch of grunt down low.
i was able to ring out the RS400 more than the 300hp, and both cars had very few kms on them. i was the first to drive the 300hp, and the RS400 only had 43kms on it, i was the 2nd tester. note: the first guy somehow managed to curb a rim! apparently he is a GTR owner looking for a sedan.
i have to say, the 300hp was no slouch. driving them both back to back indicated a bit of an edge to the RS 400 past 3k rpm but it didn't feel 33.3% stronger. the punch was impressive and no obvious boost lag. i assume the turbos are sequential to help. i can understand why the 300hp will be the volume seller. RS400 had nicer rims but otherwise appeared the same as the 300hp except for the colour of the S.
we only get AWD is Canada which is a shame, and of course no 6MT. so our spec sheet shows no VLSD. i hope the RWD keeps that in the US. i asked the dealer if the new Q60 will be 6MT and he didn't know. the Q50 definitely felt heavier than my G37, but fortunately it didn't have the DAS steering even if it has been improved. i actually liked the 7AT in manual mode holding gears and the shifts were decently crisp. exhaust note in the RS400 was throatier but both were much more subdued than my custom cat-back, obviously. less drone too even with my vibrant resonators.
not sure about the US market, but in Canada the best deal is likely the 300hp with Premium and Sport packages, skip the tech and driver assistance pkgs. i'll keep my red S from my G37 and slap that on. J/K.
i was able to get some handy paperwork from the dealer that is clearly not meant for public consumption. it shows a model, mix (% of each model produced), and MSRP as well as a 'Gradewalk' which looks like a Gantt chart of the Q50 lineup. some info was missing, however. model code for the 300hp is Q4XL76 and the RS400 is Q4XS76, each with various 'options groups'. i'm guessing the '4X' part is AWD which is mandatory in Canada.
all Q50's are assembled in Japan. even the 2.0T engine is sent over from Tennessee to Japan for final assembly. up here we are looking at max 3 month lead time for custom orders. and the dealer is sure that cosmetic mid-cycle refresh is due for MY18.
i was able to ring out the RS400 more than the 300hp, and both cars had very few kms on them. i was the first to drive the 300hp, and the RS400 only had 43kms on it, i was the 2nd tester. note: the first guy somehow managed to curb a rim! apparently he is a GTR owner looking for a sedan.
i have to say, the 300hp was no slouch. driving them both back to back indicated a bit of an edge to the RS 400 past 3k rpm but it didn't feel 33.3% stronger. the punch was impressive and no obvious boost lag. i assume the turbos are sequential to help. i can understand why the 300hp will be the volume seller. RS400 had nicer rims but otherwise appeared the same as the 300hp except for the colour of the S.
we only get AWD is Canada which is a shame, and of course no 6MT. so our spec sheet shows no VLSD. i hope the RWD keeps that in the US. i asked the dealer if the new Q60 will be 6MT and he didn't know. the Q50 definitely felt heavier than my G37, but fortunately it didn't have the DAS steering even if it has been improved. i actually liked the 7AT in manual mode holding gears and the shifts were decently crisp. exhaust note in the RS400 was throatier but both were much more subdued than my custom cat-back, obviously. less drone too even with my vibrant resonators.
not sure about the US market, but in Canada the best deal is likely the 300hp with Premium and Sport packages, skip the tech and driver assistance pkgs. i'll keep my red S from my G37 and slap that on. J/K.
i was able to get some handy paperwork from the dealer that is clearly not meant for public consumption. it shows a model, mix (% of each model produced), and MSRP as well as a 'Gradewalk' which looks like a Gantt chart of the Q50 lineup. some info was missing, however. model code for the 300hp is Q4XL76 and the RS400 is Q4XS76, each with various 'options groups'. i'm guessing the '4X' part is AWD which is mandatory in Canada.
all Q50's are assembled in Japan. even the 2.0T engine is sent over from Tennessee to Japan for final assembly. up here we are looking at max 3 month lead time for custom orders. and the dealer is sure that cosmetic mid-cycle refresh is due for MY18.
Thanks for adding your experience!
05-14-2016, 11:49 AM
#55
i was hoping to see that Infiniti had gotten a bit more adventurous with the interior colour schemes. i don't mind the exterior colour options, but the lack of contrast with the interior seats, stitching, doors and dash is disappointing. i know the trim can be had in either aluminum or wood, but everything is black - at least the cars i looked at. the stone interior might be OK if the dash/doors were black (as in pre '10 G37s), but zee Germans have much nicer interior contrast options.
i'm not saying Infiniti has to join the red seat crowd, but there must be a happy middle ground like seat and door inserts or something. perhaps with the next cosmetic mid-cycle refresh coming up?
i'm not saying Infiniti has to join the red seat crowd, but there must be a happy middle ground like seat and door inserts or something. perhaps with the next cosmetic mid-cycle refresh coming up?
05-16-2016, 04:13 PM
#56
@canucklehead: Thanks for your perspectives on driving both cars back to back. I think they'll do quite well with the 300hp model...and it will be interesting to see what the aftermarket can unlock for this car. I have a feeling that optical turbo sensor will be a factor in pushing boost higher. You can probably do it, but may run the risk of over spooling the turbo.
05-16-2016, 08:40 PM
#57
Well just got back from dealership myself driving what I was told...the only 50q red sport in the state. I must say I was highly impressed with the powerplant. I didn't get to go through all modes, just sport and sport + as I really wanted to experience the DAS. I couldn't agree more with dam near everything twin states in his initial review. This car was def a blast to drive, but as much has stated at nearly 60k personally I'd take a used 2013+ M5. Curious to see how the market on these unfolds over the upcoming months
Last edited by Daddy Fat Sacs; 05-17-2016 at 08:02 AM.
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twin_snails (05-17-2016)
05-16-2016, 09:37 PM
#58
Oddly enough, I've seen nothing of the sort in any review so far...just guestimates and none of the magazines have reported anything. Maybe they're under some kind of embargo-- that seems dumb because the car is out in the wild, albeit only a few of them.
2016 Infiniti Q50 Red Sport 400 First Drive Review - Motor Trend
2016 Infiniti Q50 Red Sport 400 First Drive ? Review ? Car and Driver
Car And Driver says roughly 4.4 sec but idk how accurate that is or not
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twin_snails (05-17-2016)
05-17-2016, 11:22 AM
#59
That fender badge needs to go. lol
Great review OP! One of these days I'll update. I am sure it will be awhile as I want to drive my 2010 xS to the ground. Who knows what will be available then. Maybe I'll save up enough couch change to afford a Model S. heh
Great review OP! One of these days I'll update. I am sure it will be awhile as I want to drive my 2010 xS to the ground. Who knows what will be available then. Maybe I'll save up enough couch change to afford a Model S. heh
