Yikes...evidence of damage not on carfax
06-29-2015, 03:06 PM
#1
Yikes...evidence of damage not on carfax
Well...
First Background:
2013 G37x, 16K miles, CPO.
Went to my local Infiniti dealer today (not the one I bought my car from) to have them adjust drivers door interior trim as it seemed to pull away from the door. They found stickum holding the clips in place and a poor job overall fitting the door trim. After further inspection, they pointed out areas that clearly show the car suffered damage and was repainted on the back, front and passenger side, poorly. I certainly wouldn't have known what to look for but after hearing their explanation, it makes sense. Over-spray on the grill, bad swirl marks that extend onto the chrome trim around the windows, etc. looks like they were sanding it down and could even have bondo filler under the paint. The paint was so improperly done on the back bumper that the sensors are filled in. Yes, I'm embarrassed that I didn't catch all this but when you do a couple walk arounds and a test drive, I suppose it is easy to miss...I assume they COUNT on it.
Obviously, I got on the phone with the Infiniti dealer I bought it from two weeks ago and explained my disappointment and asked what could be done. They said very often cars come back from lease with cosmetic damage and they do the touch ups themselves. That is certainly reasonable. However, the work done here is so amateur that the dealer I was just at said they would not have CPO'd this car. This also seems to be beyond simple touch ups.
Here is the thing, the car mechanically is great. I love the color and the interior (graphite with wood). It has very low miles and lots of warranty left. So, what should I ask of the dealer? Fix all the cosmetic issues? Give me another car off the lot (I know they don't have one that matches mine feature wise)? Scrap the deal entirely? What would you reasonably do/expect from them (repeat: reasonably...please don't flex internet message board muscles)?
First Background:
2013 G37x, 16K miles, CPO.
Went to my local Infiniti dealer today (not the one I bought my car from) to have them adjust drivers door interior trim as it seemed to pull away from the door. They found stickum holding the clips in place and a poor job overall fitting the door trim. After further inspection, they pointed out areas that clearly show the car suffered damage and was repainted on the back, front and passenger side, poorly. I certainly wouldn't have known what to look for but after hearing their explanation, it makes sense. Over-spray on the grill, bad swirl marks that extend onto the chrome trim around the windows, etc. looks like they were sanding it down and could even have bondo filler under the paint. The paint was so improperly done on the back bumper that the sensors are filled in. Yes, I'm embarrassed that I didn't catch all this but when you do a couple walk arounds and a test drive, I suppose it is easy to miss...I assume they COUNT on it.
Obviously, I got on the phone with the Infiniti dealer I bought it from two weeks ago and explained my disappointment and asked what could be done. They said very often cars come back from lease with cosmetic damage and they do the touch ups themselves. That is certainly reasonable. However, the work done here is so amateur that the dealer I was just at said they would not have CPO'd this car. This also seems to be beyond simple touch ups.
Here is the thing, the car mechanically is great. I love the color and the interior (graphite with wood). It has very low miles and lots of warranty left. So, what should I ask of the dealer? Fix all the cosmetic issues? Give me another car off the lot (I know they don't have one that matches mine feature wise)? Scrap the deal entirely? What would you reasonably do/expect from them (repeat: reasonably...please don't flex internet message board muscles)?
06-29-2015, 03:08 PM
#2
Well...
First Background:
2013 G37x, 16K miles, CPO.
Went to my local Infiniti dealer today (not the one I bought my car from) to have them adjust drivers door interior trim as it seemed to pull away from the door. They found stickum holding the clips in place and a poor job overall fitting the door trim. After further inspection, they pointed out areas that clearly show the car suffered damage and was repainted on the back, front and passenger side, poorly. I certainly wouldn't have known what to look for but after hearing their explanation, it makes sense. Over-spray on the grill, bad swirl marks that extend onto the chrome trim around the windows, etc. looks like they were sanding it down and could even have bondo filler under the paint. The paint was so improperly done on the back bumper that the sensors are filled in. Yes, I'm embarrassed that I didn't catch all this but when you do a couple walk arounds and a test drive, I suppose it is easy to miss...I assume they COUNT on it.
Obviously, I got on the phone with the Infiniti dealer I bought it from two weeks ago and explained my disappointment and asked what could be done. They said very often cars come back from lease with cosmetic damage and they do the touch ups themselves. That is certainly reasonable. However, the work done here is so amateur that the dealer I was just at said they would not have CPO'd this car. This also seems to be beyond simple touch ups.
Here is the thing, the car mechanically is great. I love the color and the interior (graphite with wood). It has very low miles and lots of warranty left. So, what should I ask of the dealer? Fix all the cosmetic issues? Give me another car off the lot (I know they don't have one that matches mine feature wise)? Scrap the deal entirely? What would you reasonably do/expect from them (repeat: reasonably...please don't flex internet message board muscles)?
First Background:
2013 G37x, 16K miles, CPO.
Went to my local Infiniti dealer today (not the one I bought my car from) to have them adjust drivers door interior trim as it seemed to pull away from the door. They found stickum holding the clips in place and a poor job overall fitting the door trim. After further inspection, they pointed out areas that clearly show the car suffered damage and was repainted on the back, front and passenger side, poorly. I certainly wouldn't have known what to look for but after hearing their explanation, it makes sense. Over-spray on the grill, bad swirl marks that extend onto the chrome trim around the windows, etc. looks like they were sanding it down and could even have bondo filler under the paint. The paint was so improperly done on the back bumper that the sensors are filled in. Yes, I'm embarrassed that I didn't catch all this but when you do a couple walk arounds and a test drive, I suppose it is easy to miss...I assume they COUNT on it.
Obviously, I got on the phone with the Infiniti dealer I bought it from two weeks ago and explained my disappointment and asked what could be done. They said very often cars come back from lease with cosmetic damage and they do the touch ups themselves. That is certainly reasonable. However, the work done here is so amateur that the dealer I was just at said they would not have CPO'd this car. This also seems to be beyond simple touch ups.
Here is the thing, the car mechanically is great. I love the color and the interior (graphite with wood). It has very low miles and lots of warranty left. So, what should I ask of the dealer? Fix all the cosmetic issues? Give me another car off the lot (I know they don't have one that matches mine feature wise)? Scrap the deal entirely? What would you reasonably do/expect from them (repeat: reasonably...please don't flex internet message board muscles)?
did you try autocheck ?
06-29-2015, 03:14 PM
#3
Yeah, I'm aware that only reported accidents show up. I did not try Autocheck. Basically, just trying to get some insight from the community on how best to handle the situation.
06-29-2015, 03:36 PM
#4
06-29-2015, 05:27 PM
#5
Is a CPO car guaranteed not to have had any prior collision repair damage? I'm not sure but I don't think so. Unfortunately you, like most people, actually believe that a CPO car is held to a higher standard than any other used car. It's not. The difference you're paying for is extension of the manufacturer's warranty. Which doesn't guarantee it hasn't been in a wreck or that the repair was top notch.
Unless I'm wrong and your CPO paperwork says something about "satisfaction guaranteed" or that it's certified to have not had prior collision damage, you got what you got. Carfax and Autocheck are basic steps you should always take but aren't any guarantee at all that the car hasn't been wrecked.
I'm fairly certain that you or other people who heed your cautionary tale will make damn sure next time to remove their rose colored glasses before doing a THOROUGH inspection themselves or pay the $70-150 that it costs to have a qualified pre purchase inspection done by someone wo knows what to look for on any used car that they buy in the future. That money is much cheaper than the CPO certification you paid ectra for that doesn't even tell you that your car has been wrecked before.
Trusting any car dealer, especially a used car dealer, to look out for the buyer's best interest is not a good idea. Even if the used car dealer is the manufacturer.
Sorry you got screwed.
Unless I'm wrong and your CPO paperwork says something about "satisfaction guaranteed" or that it's certified to have not had prior collision damage, you got what you got. Carfax and Autocheck are basic steps you should always take but aren't any guarantee at all that the car hasn't been wrecked.
I'm fairly certain that you or other people who heed your cautionary tale will make damn sure next time to remove their rose colored glasses before doing a THOROUGH inspection themselves or pay the $70-150 that it costs to have a qualified pre purchase inspection done by someone wo knows what to look for on any used car that they buy in the future. That money is much cheaper than the CPO certification you paid ectra for that doesn't even tell you that your car has been wrecked before.
Trusting any car dealer, especially a used car dealer, to look out for the buyer's best interest is not a good idea. Even if the used car dealer is the manufacturer.
Sorry you got screwed.
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telcoman (06-30-2015)
06-29-2015, 08:43 PM
#6
I had something similar (but not as severe) happen. As I walked around my cpo car, the salesman showed me the door jams and popped the trunk as I got to the back. What I didn't notice (because it was popped) was 2 huge scratches on the trunk lid. The rest of the car was perfect. I think he did it on purpose to hide the damage.
They wouldn't fix it and I had already signed the papers. I chalk it up to a lesson learned.
They wouldn't fix it and I had already signed the papers. I chalk it up to a lesson learned.
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07-01-2015, 06:12 PM
#8
Unfortunately Carfax and Autocheck are only as reliable as the people in charge of reporting them. I know for a fact my car has been in 2 accidents while in the hands of the dealership, and neither appear on those reports.
I'd say it really depends on what's on your CPO paperwork. Ideally, you want the identical car but non-wrecked. I just don't know how your agreement is worded. Go over it with a fine tooth comb and see if anything is violated. Ya, it would suck losing the car but if that damage has been covered up whose to say there aren't other issues that just haven't been found yet. Good luck and keep us posted.
I'd say it really depends on what's on your CPO paperwork. Ideally, you want the identical car but non-wrecked. I just don't know how your agreement is worded. Go over it with a fine tooth comb and see if anything is violated. Ya, it would suck losing the car but if that damage has been covered up whose to say there aren't other issues that just haven't been found yet. Good luck and keep us posted.
07-02-2015, 08:14 AM
#9
Unfortunately Carfax and Autocheck are only as reliable as the people in charge of reporting them. I know for a fact my car has been in 2 accidents while in the hands of the dealership, and neither appear on those reports.
I'd say it really depends on what's on your CPO paperwork. Ideally, you want the identical car but non-wrecked. I just don't know how your agreement is worded. Go over it with a fine tooth comb and see if anything is violated. Ya, it would suck losing the car but if that damage has been covered up whose to say there aren't other issues that just haven't been found yet. Good luck and keep us posted.
I'd say it really depends on what's on your CPO paperwork. Ideally, you want the identical car but non-wrecked. I just don't know how your agreement is worded. Go over it with a fine tooth comb and see if anything is violated. Ya, it would suck losing the car but if that damage has been covered up whose to say there aren't other issues that just haven't been found yet. Good luck and keep us posted.
any problems call corporate
07-02-2015, 08:49 AM
#10
Lol, pick a side.
Video clip making fun of guarantees and calling them a sham;
and this comment.
My Experience:
My GF bought a CPO Acura TSX and after driving it for a week she noticed that the windshield had a chip in it. The chip appeared to be repaired, but it was spreading a little. After reviewing the CPO inspection, one of the criteria was that the windshield is free of cracks and/or repairs, which the technician performing the CPO identified as being true. The windshield ultimately cracked completely and the dealership stood behind the fact that the windshield didn't meet CPO spec and replaced it.
Take Aways:
Dealers typically just tack on these CPO packages as bundled warranties, but there can be implications that hold the dealer to certain minimum specs such as: tire tread, brake pad life, windshield condition, etc. Review all of your paperwork and see if anything helps your case.
Video clip making fun of guarantees and calling them a sham;
My Experience:
My GF bought a CPO Acura TSX and after driving it for a week she noticed that the windshield had a chip in it. The chip appeared to be repaired, but it was spreading a little. After reviewing the CPO inspection, one of the criteria was that the windshield is free of cracks and/or repairs, which the technician performing the CPO identified as being true. The windshield ultimately cracked completely and the dealership stood behind the fact that the windshield didn't meet CPO spec and replaced it.
Take Aways:
Dealers typically just tack on these CPO packages as bundled warranties, but there can be implications that hold the dealer to certain minimum specs such as: tire tread, brake pad life, windshield condition, etc. Review all of your paperwork and see if anything helps your case.
07-02-2015, 09:04 AM
#11
From the Infiniti CPO warranty documentation regarding "What is not covered"
Good luck.
Paint, exhaust system, carpet, glass, upholstery,
soft trim, weatherstripping, convertible soft top,
moldings, bright metal, fabric and liner, clutch disc,
pressure plate and throw out bearing (manual
transmission), audio system components, battery
and cables, lenses and bulbs, belts and hoses,
tires, brake drums, disc brake rotors, wheels, shock
absorber(s), strut inserts, squeaks, rattles, water
leaks, wind noise, constant velocity boots, immobilizer
key, remote keyless entry switch assembly,
mobile entertainment systems, navigational system
components, and any and all in-vehicle communication
systems.
soft trim, weatherstripping, convertible soft top,
moldings, bright metal, fabric and liner, clutch disc,
pressure plate and throw out bearing (manual
transmission), audio system components, battery
and cables, lenses and bulbs, belts and hoses,
tires, brake drums, disc brake rotors, wheels, shock
absorber(s), strut inserts, squeaks, rattles, water
leaks, wind noise, constant velocity boots, immobilizer
key, remote keyless entry switch assembly,
mobile entertainment systems, navigational system
components, and any and all in-vehicle communication
systems.
Any failure due to damage resulting from accident,
fire, theft , flood, water damage (including water
ingestion), freezing, alteration or modification,
improper repair, improper installation of any
Nissan/Infiniti approved accessory.
fire, theft , flood, water damage (including water
ingestion), freezing, alteration or modification,
improper repair, improper installation of any
Nissan/Infiniti approved accessory.
This Limited Warranty does not apply to any vehicle
and is rendered void if the vehicle has ever been
issued a “salvage” or similar title under any State’s
law; or has ever been deemed a “total loss” or
equivalent by any insurance company, such as by
cash payment of a claim in lieu of repairs because of
a determination that the cost of repairs exceeds the
actual cash value of the vehicle.
and is rendered void if the vehicle has ever been
issued a “salvage” or similar title under any State’s
law; or has ever been deemed a “total loss” or
equivalent by any insurance company, such as by
cash payment of a claim in lieu of repairs because of
a determination that the cost of repairs exceeds the
actual cash value of the vehicle.
07-02-2015, 11:29 AM
#12
This link will take you to the form I am talking about - you should have received this when you purchased the car:
http://www.cpo.infinitiusa.com/downl...-checklist.pdf
If there were damages on the car when you bought it, they should be noted in this inspection. If they are not noted in the inspection, but were present when you purchased the car, this gives you legal traction since they either falsified the document or made an error that voids the agreement.
Refer to items: 73, 74, 133, 134
Note: I am not your lawyer and this is not legal advice.
http://www.cpo.infinitiusa.com/downl...-checklist.pdf
If there were damages on the car when you bought it, they should be noted in this inspection. If they are not noted in the inspection, but were present when you purchased the car, this gives you legal traction since they either falsified the document or made an error that voids the agreement.
Refer to items: 73, 74, 133, 134
Note: I am not your lawyer and this is not legal advice.
07-02-2015, 11:42 AM
#13
This link will take you to the form I am talking about - you should have received this when you purchased the car:
http://www.cpo.infinitiusa.com/downl...-checklist.pdf
If there were damages on the car when you bought it, they should be noted in this inspection. If they are not noted in the inspection, but were present when you purchased the car, this gives you legal traction since they either falsified the document or made an error that voids the agreement.
Refer to items: 73, 74, 133, 134
Note: I am not your lawyer and this is not legal advice.
http://www.cpo.infinitiusa.com/downl...-checklist.pdf
If there were damages on the car when you bought it, they should be noted in this inspection. If they are not noted in the inspection, but were present when you purchased the car, this gives you legal traction since they either falsified the document or made an error that voids the agreement.
Refer to items: 73, 74, 133, 134
Note: I am not your lawyer and this is not legal advice.
i agree with you here they know they have to fix it you just bought it you couldnt have done this and they know you could go legal very easily
07-02-2015, 01:33 PM
#14
Thanks everyone. The dealer seems to be very embarrassed and I have an appointment next week to take the car in and they are going to take a closer look. They said they want me happy so I am cautiously optimistic.
Stay tuned...
Stay tuned...