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Haha, perhaps. But my car and I were here before yours came off the assembly line, so... yes. I'm old. Getting older every day.
I know, I was simply referring to the very similar pics you took.
Originally Posted by Rochester
Compared to the OEM setup, my wheels & tires weigh 1.5 lbs more in the front, and 2.5 lbs more in the rear. Since any weight gain is greater than a reduction, you have a valid point. But only 3% worth.
So wassup about width, Track Boy?
My rims are significantly lighter and stronger being forged. Extremely important when you are exposing the wheels to astronomically higher heat and cornering loads on a track. Since wheels are unsprung weight, the weight savings is multiplied many times. Weight, width, and strength are things you don't really have to worry about much on a street car. You can just focus on style. I don't really have that option.
My rims are significantly lighter and stronger being forged. Extremely important when you are exposing the wheels to astronomically higher heat and cornering loads on a track. Since wheels are unsprung weight, the weight savings is multiplied many times. Weight, width, and strength are things you don't really have to worry about much on a street car.
No argument about all that. It's all true. Can't deny physics, man.
But you keep talking about "width", and I'm wondering where your track-focused head is at there. I used to have PSS on the original duckfeet, and although the grip was fantastic, I could still blip the TC on a strong launch. However, with PSS on 10" wide rear wheels, it's made a noticeable difference for grip on the launch. If I want to rip off the line, I need to turn TC off.
Are you saying that on a course track, the 1.5" stagger is no bueno?
No argument about all that. It's all true. Can't deny physics, man.
But you keep talking about "width", and I'm wondering where your track-focused head is at there. I used to have PSS on the original duckfeet, and although the grip was fantastic, I could still blip the TC on a strong launch. However, with PSS on 10" wide rear wheels, it's made a noticeable difference for grip on the launch. If I want to rip off the line, I need to turn TC off.
Are you saying that on a course track, the 1.5" stagger is no bueno?
Width is important too on the track. To a point, the wider you can go, the more available grip you have. Stagger is fine on our cars since they are RWD. I have about an inch difference front and rear on my car so the steering is nice and sharp and it does not oversteer too much.
Lots of variables here when it comes to width as most AWD setups will want to run the same width front and rear so the computers do not get all mixed up and think your front tires are spinning. I had 275's all around on my '09 STI which helped with the massive stock understeer, but the steering pump groaned in protest every time I tried to turn a tight corner slowly.
As mentioned above, width can also help with understeer or oversteer. Width can also be a factor with how you like the car to handle. Most manufacturers will sell their cars stock with understeer because it is easier to control if the car starts to slide. Some people (like me) might like their car to oversteer just slightly so they can steer the front of the car with the steering wheel and the rear with the throttle. You can also adjust for understeer or oversteer significantly with the suspension or something as simple as the sway bars.
Then you also unknowingly brought up the issue of the actual grip of the tire itself based on its composition. The PSS was a decent street/track tire about a decade ago, but now there are so many tires (even from Michelin) that are so much more advanced and stickier at the track. Tires themselves are probably the biggest improvement you can make to any car because it affects everything the car does like accelerate, brake, and corner because it is the only part connecting the car with the road.
It sounds like you noticed the difference in extra grip when you went to wider rims (and wider tires?) and as a result stretched the tire more to put more of it in contact with the road.
Well, I think I have rambled on enough now. Whoops!
Rears are 275/35ZR19. No stretch at all, just proper fitment.
Good post, 4DRZ.
Since you brought it up... what would you recommend as a street performance tire in the same target market as PSS, but better? This is my last year with my rears, and I'm needing a pair next year. And as you know, that's big bucks for those tires in that size, so I'd like to get it right. If you have a rec, I'm interested.
Rears are 275/35ZR19. No stretch at all, just proper fitment.
Good post, 4DRZ.
Since you brought it up... what would you recommend as a street performance tire in the same target market as PSS, but better? This is my last year with my rears, and I'm needing a pair next year. And as you know, that's big bucks for those tires in that size, so I'd like to get it right. If you have a rec, I'm interested.
When you say better than the Michelin's are you talking about better grip, better cornering, better wear, better price, or better life?
If you want ultimate grip, but are willing to sacrifice some wear take a look at the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2, Yokohama Advan AD08R, Dunlop ZII Star Spec, or Bridgestone RE-71R(what I run). Hankook Ventus RS-3 and Nitto NT05 might be worth looking at too, but a little older design. Nexen N Fera Sur4 might be the best buy of that group and might be great on the street. Not so sure how it would hold up on track with heat, but you probably don't have to worry about that.
If you want something that will probably give you a little more grip on the street, but is cheaper, then check out the Kuhmo Ecsta PS91 and Firestone Firehawk Indy 500.
Tires that should wear similary, and be cheaper, but have a touch more grip would be the Bridgestone S-04 Pole Position, Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sport, and Nitto NT NeoGen.
Two tires that I have heard people drool over, but I would skip are the Pirelli PZero and the Continental Extreme Contact DW, especially once you see how small the tread blocks are on those tires.
I don't have a ton of experience with different tires but I have had great love for my DWS. it took me ~3 months to get used to them and some serious pushing before I trusted them but they are slow wear and really great in rain and dry spirited runs.
I don't think they are quite as good as the T1 Toyo's I had however.
Lol. I just said how I have the continentals and like them.
I wouldn't drool over them and like I said I swore them to hell the first few months I owned them. but once they wore down a bit I really pushed them hard and they held very well. I've had some really hard runs and 7+ months later I just had them checked at 8/32s after 10k miles on the rears.
When you say better than the Michelin's are you talking about better grip, better cornering, better wear, better price, or better life?
Better grip, better corning. When looking at this class of tire, price and tread life take a back seat.
Originally Posted by 4DRZ
If you want ultimate grip, but are willing to sacrifice some wear take a look at the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2, Yokohama Advan AD08R, Dunlop ZII Star Spec, or Bridgestone RE-71R(what I run). Hankook Ventus RS-3 and Nitto NT05 might be worth looking at too, but a little older design. Nexen N Fera Sur4 might be the best buy of that group and might be great on the street. Not so sure how it would hold up on track with heat, but you probably don't have to worry about that.
Interesting. You definitely target track-capable tires. And for a number of these, you're prioritizing dry grip over wet-weather safety. I make a lot of compromises when it comes to my car and what is probably normal decision making, but not that one.
Still, you've given me things to consider before Spring 2017.
Lol. I just said how I have the continentals and like them.
I wouldn't drool over them and like I said I swore them to hell the first few months I owned them. but once they wore down a bit I really pushed them hard and they held very well. I've had some really hard runs and 7+ months later I just had them checked at 8/32s after 10k miles on the rears.
You are right that they are a perfectly good street tire and probably better than stock in some ways, but they might not have the same performance cornering as the Michelin PSS he is used to.
Originally Posted by Rochester
Better grip, better corning. When looking at this class of tire, price and tread life take a back seat.
Interesting. You definitely target track-capable tires. And for a number of these, you're prioritizing dry grip over wet-weather safety. I make a lot of compromises when it comes to my car and what is probably normal decision making, but not that one.
Still, you've given me things to consider before Spring 2017.
For maximum grip you are going to need a track ready tire. However, this is probably a step too extreme for a car that just sees the street. You will only discover the limits of those tires on the street when you do something stupid.
These types of tires are not all bad in the rain. In fact one of the reasons I went with the RE-71R's was that they were one of the best in the rain according to the guy at the tire rack I talked to who got to test them on their wet skid pad. I was hesitant too, but they are surprisingly good in the rain for a track focused tire.
The other thing to consider is that these types of tires will probably also be noticeably louder than what you are used to. Again I think the first group of tires I recommended that have maximum grip are probably overkill for how you will be using the car. I would pick something out of the next group down on my list for the street. The Kuhmos and Firestones might be the perfect stop gap between hardcore street/track tires and high performance street tires. The guys at Tirerack are really good at going over the differences too.
So what you're saying is, at least once or twice every time I drive the car.
I hear ya.
"I just figured she was a raging alcoholic" "We landed on the moon!" Great movie.
Anyway, you might spin the tires on takeoff of the stickiest tires I suggested or break them loose in the rain around a corner. However, as far as dry handling goes you will not exceed the limits of these tires unless you are doing 4 times the speed limit or have no idea what entry speed is. Both of which will lead to a serious accident since you have no runoff on a public road.
You really need to take it to a track to appreciate the top level tires I suggested. Otherwise, you will have a lot more fun picking something out of the two tiers below that which will still be stickier than what you have now, and mostly cheaper as well- always an added bonus.
Originally Posted by IracknBack
Ya, 4DRZ I missed the part he didn't car about tread life and cost. . .
You know... it took until now to see the underlying point you were trying to make, which is high-speed control.
And you're absolutely correct... those situations should be track-only, unless you've no common sense, or a death wish. I've not experienced any 100+ mph banzai runs since I was a kid, when invincibility > car. At 52, all my bad-judgement moments (genuinely infrequent, despite my comment, although certainly age-inappropriate) involve accelerating into and out of solitary turns with as much grip as I can maintain, or hard-launching the car, or playing with occasional TC-off oversteer.
So yes, track-focused tires are off the list. Seems the PSS are still a good choice for me, unless I want to shave some cost, or experiment.
You know... it took until now to see the underlying point you were trying to make, which is high-speed control.
And you're absolutely correct... those situations should be track-only, unless you've no common sense, or a death wish. I've not experienced any 100+ mph banzai runs since I was a kid, when invincibility > car. At 52, all my bad-judgement moments (genuinely infrequent, despite my comment, although certainly age-inappropriate) involve accelerating into and out of solitary turns with as much grip as I can maintain, or hard-launching the car, or playing with occasional TC-off oversteer.
So yes, track-focused tires are off the list. Seems the PSS are still a good choice for me, unless I want to shave some cost, or experiment.
Good, we are on the same page. I didn't want to call you out for driving like a moron on city streets, but your last comment made me wonder.
Hi, new 2013 G37 sport owner in Maryland. Enjoying the car so far, though the more i read, the more i fear for my CSC; 40k miles - seems fine to me so far, though in general the transmission is not nearly as crisp as the Honda I've been used to for the last few years - really my only complaint so far with about 300 miles on it.
10-24-2016, 11:04 AM
