notalk

I haven't seen this yet, and I have no idea of the cost per quart, I wonder if any one has seen this or used this yet. I assume they mean ester base stock and not ester oil. Ester oil is used to lubricate R-134 a/c systems. Ester base stock is an alternative to PAO base stock for synthetic oils. It is the prevalent base stock for aeronautical engine oils. If this is what Infiniti is using, it seems a little strange. First, the unofficial recommendation in the past had been to avoid synthetic oils for 10K-15K miles. Now, Infiniti wants you to buy their synthetic oil. Second, auto manufacturers have tried ester base stock synthetic oils in the past and found PAO base stock synthetics did a better job in automotive engines. Just curious how Infiniti ended up with an ester base stock engine oil.

todd92

Do you have a link to this oil? Obviously Infiniti doesn't make oil and there aren't very many ester based consumer oils for them to repackage. Red-Line is the most well known. This does fly in the face of Nissan/Infiniti dealers long standing stance of discouraging synthetic use, as it limits the dealer service departments opportunities for selling unneeded service.

notalk

ITB08-039, dated August 6, 2008, as applicable to G37's, says "INFINITI recommends Genuine NISSAN Ester Engine Oil available at your INIFINITI dealer." The part number is 999MP-5W30EP. I think 999 is a miscellaneous part not in the fiche. I think MP means motor part. And, I am guessing 5W30EP means 5W-30 (oil weight) Ester and something beginning with a P.

Right, Red Line is the biggest U.S. ester based oil producer. But, there are a few well known ester based oils made in Malaysia, the Phillipines, etc. And, there are the aeronautical ester based engine oils, a number of which are made in the U.S. Plus, as you say, this seems the opposite of Infiniti's synthetic oil avoidance of the past.

Also interesting is ester based synthetics have a much longer life span than PAO based synthetics. In some aircraft engine use, ester oil is a permanent oil. You change the filter regularly and add additives regularly, but, the factory fill is never drained from the crankcase. I can't see Infiniti telling G37 owners to change ester based oil every 15K miles. (Nor, can I see the dealers like doing one oil change per year instead of the current four changes per year.)

todd92

Maybe they think people will be stupid enough to change $10/qt synthetic oil at the dealer every 3750 miles?

Ester or PAO will both make 15,000 mile intervals in a car, so it's a moot point that an ester might last longer. I do use synthetic at the 1st oil change, I use the max interval in the owners manual (7500 miles for Nissan/Infiniti) and then once a year after the warranty is up. Never had any oil problems, quit sending oil samples out for analysis as the answer is always the same 'everything looks great'.

patmsb1

I'm not crazy about this change as well, $10/qt. is high and to do it every 3750 miles. will start adding up pretty quick. The dealership already charges me $50.00 every oil change, I guess it will be $75 + for now on? Wow! INFINITI needs to step upto the plate to help us with this unexpected cost for this new oil spec. they came up with. What do you think about this?

todd92

They will not require it, it will be an option, but the dealers will still 'recommend' 3750 mile changes if you you use it, which would be a total waste of money.

It's simple.

Use conventional oil, change it every 3750 miles, live happily ever after OR
Use synthetic oil, change it every 7500 miles (longer if you want after the warranty is up), live happily ever after.

TomG37

It's supposed to stop the vvel from making noise right?

What oil does the car come with out of the factory????

da mayor

iTrader: (2)

it comes w/ the ester oil from the factory. STEP IT UP, my customer, first complained after his first oil change about the ticking sound. He came in and then did the ester oil change and the ticking is virtually disappeared.

notalk

Kenny, do you know when the factory began shipping cars with this ester oil?

Is it safe to assume this is a fairly recent occurance, say within the last six months or so, or even less? Has Infiniti republished the Owner's Manual with reference to this oil?

If this is now factory fill, I can not imagine Infiniti not almost requiring owners to continue using this oil. Switching from ester based synthetic to conventional or even PAO based synthetics could cause problems from the way ester based lubricants "bond" with metal.

I have not had a chance to study this, but I did find U.S. Patent 5674822 was issued October 7, 1997 to a bunch of New Jersey chemists, possibly HATCO employees, for ester base stock crankcase lubricating oil. One of the "new" items is the additive to reduce iron wear. Apparently, pure ester base stock results in accellerated iron wear, which leads to bearing failure in automotive use. The patented base stock which holds the iron preservative additive allows this patented base stock to be used in automobiles.

It also supposedly reduces vehicle emissions compared to conventional motor oils and disposes "cleaner". Some refer to it as a "green" oil. I assume Nissan will be touting this as it gets people to pay $12/quart (Nissan's suggested price) for this oil.

Maybe it's just me, but over $100 for 5 quarts of this stuff, filter and a half hour labor every three months (3,750 miles) seems a bit steep. Only a few years ago 911 owners were complaining about $120 oil changes. But, that was for 10 quarts of Mobil 1 and was good for 10,000 miles.

da mayor

iTrader: (2)

From my knowledge the factory has that ester oil, which is not a synthetic oil from what I've been told. It's just a conventional oil w/ the additive. I asked if they would just sell the additive but wont' do it. We have to pay that much so we're not making anything out of those small quarts of oil. All 2009 sedans will require it, 2008-up G37 coupes, and 2009 FX50's

notalk

That's interesting because no oil producer says they produce an ester additive for conventional motor oil. All ester base stock motor oils are Group V synthetics. The most common here in the U.S. is Redline.

Which gets us full circle to the conventional versus synthetic argument for these engines. If I want the ester base, and I don't want conventional oil, I buy Redline. But, will Infiniti say I should not be running synthetic in this engine?

And, if the oil engineers are correct in saying really bad things will happen if you switch from an ester based synthetic to anything else, what will happen to new owners who don't use this Nissan Ester oil? Will Infiniti's warranty cover any problems because the M-M Act allows owners to buy commercially available substitutes (SJ or SM oils, I can't remember without looking at the Owner's Manual) and not mandate OEM parts? I have to assume Nissan knows it can not mandate dealer only oil. So, now I am even more confused. Maybe I should research oil additives, or just leave everything as it is?

splatt

So what are you telling your G37 customers who use the ester based oil that their oil change interval should be? 3500 miles? That's not going to sit too well.
7500? 10000? That would be reasonable.

notalk

I was wrong. There is a polymer based ester oil additive which is compatible with conventional or synthetic (group IV or group V) oils. But, I have not yet found any commercially available products.

notalk

If this Nissan Ester oil is a conventional oil with an ester additive, then I imagine Infiniti will still recommend changes every 3,750 miles. Only, now, you will need to pay $12/quart for your oil.

notalk

Okay. It turns out a number of different companies make different ester additives. I think there are a huge number of esters which may be added to conventional motor oil. I have not found an aftermarket additive. All the additives I found are made for oil manufacturers, or, like in this case, private label oils. It would appear Nissan believes or found out that adding a certain or specific ester to conventional motor oil allows the VVEL to operate as intended. So, Nissan markets its own private label conventional oil with ester additive at $12/quart.

Unless I am missing something here, it would seem that Nissan/Infiniti would not want the world to believe that in order to keep your VVEL quiet and operating properly, you must use this special oil, and, there's only one place to get this oil - at the dealer, and the cost is $12/quart. Don't most owners, not necessarily the people on this forum, want to keep their car ownership and maintenance as simple as possible? If so, wouldn't a lot of potential buyers buy something where they can get oil changes anywhere? If all potential buyers were told they had to bring their car back to the dealer to get their oil changed, every three months, and it would cost over $100 for an oil change, wouldn't a fair number of potential buyers buy something else?