Choosing the right coilovers
06-20-2016, 12:43 AM
#166
Brief update, I've put about 2K on the Aragostas and they do have a break in period. I've got the fronts at 15 now and the rears (have to check) are at 8. Feeling good even over the really rough stuff. You feel the big hits and really gnarly stuff but the shocks take the edge off of them. Alignment coming tomorrow afternoon.
06-21-2016, 02:17 AM
#167
I now have a quote from Fat Cat and and one from Broadway Static.
Fat Cat is asking $1,400 for their customization of a $1,600 set of Bilstein PSS10. The progressive springs will be replaced with linear springs and the damping configured for the new spring rates, including disabling the adjuster as he can't make it work right with his damping curves. It retains OEM rear configuration and includes his Ripple Reducer technology. I skipped the Kerb Blow-Off option as I'm not intending to be whacking curbs or running at high speeds on pot-hole infested roads. The damping curve is digressive.
That's a lot to swallow for a non-adjustable damper, but they will be built with tight damping tolerances and there should be no need for the adjuster. You have to pay for his consultation up front and that adds another $250 to the bottom line. He asks what you want from the dampers, your car info including wheel and tire sizes, car weight, stabilizer bar sizes, corner weights, etc, and then determines appropriate spring rates front and rear. It appears the G37 sedan Sport comes with wheel frequencies of about 1.1 Hz. I speculated earlier it might be 1.3 Hz but that's just the tight low-speed damping cluttering the picture. I'm going with 1.65 Hz front and 1.9 Hz rear to get a GT-like ride and to implement something called Flat-ride. That works out to about 800/600 lb/in spring rates.
I first saw the Fat Cat name on the Miata boards back in the late Aughts, so he's been around and knows a thing or two about damping. He has a great series of Youtube videos explaining dampers and how the should work and how they shouldn't. Highly educational.
Broadway Static customizes Fortune Auto dampers. The 500S (street coil-over system) is custom-damped for whatever spring rates you choose and you get 24 positions on their adjuster. It uses a digressive piston like the Bilstein. I'll have to ask if both rebound and compression are changed or if it's only rebound. I was quoted $1,800 including upgrade to Swift springs and dyno plots of my dampers.
I'm not concerned about losing adjustability of the Bilsteins because the dampers will be matched tightly and wheel rates figured ahead of time. Adjusters, as one rebuilder and tester of racing dampers said, are just to get dampers to match each other. Once that's done you don't mess with them again. For street users of most other coil-overs, it means the factory damping was set to a reasonable starting point and the buyer does the last bit of refinement. And many buyers have no clue what the dampers should do!
I've had two sets of adjustable dampers in the past on other cars, and in both cases, once installed I didn't feel the need to change the curve. Adjusters were just a waste of money for me.
Fat Cat is asking $1,400 for their customization of a $1,600 set of Bilstein PSS10. The progressive springs will be replaced with linear springs and the damping configured for the new spring rates, including disabling the adjuster as he can't make it work right with his damping curves. It retains OEM rear configuration and includes his Ripple Reducer technology. I skipped the Kerb Blow-Off option as I'm not intending to be whacking curbs or running at high speeds on pot-hole infested roads. The damping curve is digressive.
That's a lot to swallow for a non-adjustable damper, but they will be built with tight damping tolerances and there should be no need for the adjuster. You have to pay for his consultation up front and that adds another $250 to the bottom line. He asks what you want from the dampers, your car info including wheel and tire sizes, car weight, stabilizer bar sizes, corner weights, etc, and then determines appropriate spring rates front and rear. It appears the G37 sedan Sport comes with wheel frequencies of about 1.1 Hz. I speculated earlier it might be 1.3 Hz but that's just the tight low-speed damping cluttering the picture. I'm going with 1.65 Hz front and 1.9 Hz rear to get a GT-like ride and to implement something called Flat-ride. That works out to about 800/600 lb/in spring rates.
I first saw the Fat Cat name on the Miata boards back in the late Aughts, so he's been around and knows a thing or two about damping. He has a great series of Youtube videos explaining dampers and how the should work and how they shouldn't. Highly educational.
Broadway Static customizes Fortune Auto dampers. The 500S (street coil-over system) is custom-damped for whatever spring rates you choose and you get 24 positions on their adjuster. It uses a digressive piston like the Bilstein. I'll have to ask if both rebound and compression are changed or if it's only rebound. I was quoted $1,800 including upgrade to Swift springs and dyno plots of my dampers.
I'm not concerned about losing adjustability of the Bilsteins because the dampers will be matched tightly and wheel rates figured ahead of time. Adjusters, as one rebuilder and tester of racing dampers said, are just to get dampers to match each other. Once that's done you don't mess with them again. For street users of most other coil-overs, it means the factory damping was set to a reasonable starting point and the buyer does the last bit of refinement. And many buyers have no clue what the dampers should do!
I've had two sets of adjustable dampers in the past on other cars, and in both cases, once installed I didn't feel the need to change the curve. Adjusters were just a waste of money for me.
06-21-2016, 08:29 AM
#168
I dunno Slarti, that seem a bit suspect to me. If you change anything with your setup, well, you know. Honestly that is an incredible amount to swallow. I set and forget too but if I were going on a long distance trip with a passenger, I'd probably dial things down just a hair. Or if i were tracking and it was a wet session...
Plus the Bilstein doesn't have separate ride/preload adjustment on the fronts which'll make the initial setup more arduous. The springs will settle and you'll need to adjust height again. Unless he's putting a threaded bottom on.
Plus the Bilstein doesn't have separate ride/preload adjustment on the fronts which'll make the initial setup more arduous. The springs will settle and you'll need to adjust height again. Unless he's putting a threaded bottom on.
06-21-2016, 01:37 PM
#171
The Bilsteins drop the ride height an inch right off the bat. There's another inch-and-a-quarter for further lowering. I want about an inch drop so preload isn't really an issue. Maybe fiddle with the front to get the rake correct.
I asked about softening the rear later and was told that would change the critical damping by ~12% and the damping could handle it. I could also send the dampers back for recurving.
Fat Cat dampers are on three national level autocross winners. I've seen only one negative review. That was the G35 owner who insisted upon retaining the damping adjustment on his PSS9 set-up so he have both street and track damping. Fat Cat advised the customer before taking the job that couldn't make it work with the changes he makes but the guy persisted and the guy was very disappointed. There was nothing written about ride height and preload, only the damping adjuster.
No track campaigns in the G's future. Well, maybe once or twice. So, damping adjustment for those conditions is unnecessary. When static coefficient of gip drops below 0.75 I slow down. I have a little wet racing experience from LeMons and daily-drove my Miata with Öhlins. I'll scratch the track itch with that car.
This may come down to price-to-feature ratio. I'm retired now and much too young to be withdrawing from my retirement funds (without penalty) and have a house to refurbish for sale, so price has a strong pull.
I asked about softening the rear later and was told that would change the critical damping by ~12% and the damping could handle it. I could also send the dampers back for recurving.
Fat Cat dampers are on three national level autocross winners. I've seen only one negative review. That was the G35 owner who insisted upon retaining the damping adjustment on his PSS9 set-up so he have both street and track damping. Fat Cat advised the customer before taking the job that couldn't make it work with the changes he makes but the guy persisted and the guy was very disappointed. There was nothing written about ride height and preload, only the damping adjuster.
No track campaigns in the G's future. Well, maybe once or twice. So, damping adjustment for those conditions is unnecessary. When static coefficient of gip drops below 0.75 I slow down. I have a little wet racing experience from LeMons and daily-drove my Miata with Öhlins. I'll scratch the track itch with that car.
This may come down to price-to-feature ratio. I'm retired now and much too young to be withdrawing from my retirement funds (without penalty) and have a house to refurbish for sale, so price has a strong pull.
06-21-2016, 10:30 PM
#172
Your springs will settle ever so slightly and change preload as it'll compress the shock a bit more than the initial setting. My fronts changed very very little but my rears did settle more and I set preload twice on them (mostly because I'm OCD).
I have no doubt Fat Cat sells a good product but you're looking at $3K for a non-adjustable shock and you don't have any real plans to track it. I get the need to make an improvement, I really do, but I'm not convinced a shock capable of winning an autocross event is going to give you what you're looking for on a daily basis especially if it's non-adjustable.
I have no doubt Fat Cat sells a good product but you're looking at $3K for a non-adjustable shock and you don't have any real plans to track it. I get the need to make an improvement, I really do, but I'm not convinced a shock capable of winning an autocross event is going to give you what you're looking for on a daily basis especially if it's non-adjustable.
06-21-2016, 11:01 PM
#173
"I'm not concerned about losing adjustability of the Bilsteins because the dampers will be matched tightly and wheel rates figured ahead of time. Adjusters, as one rebuilder and tester of racing dampers said, are just to get dampers to match each other. Once that's done you don't mess with them again. For street users of most other coil-overs, it means the factory damping was set to a reasonable starting point and the buyer does the last bit of refinement. And many buyers have no clue what the dampers should do!
I've had two sets of adjustable dampers in the past on other cars, and in both cases, once installed I didn't feel the need to change the curve. Adjusters were just a waste of money for me."
I've had two sets of adjustable dampers in the past on other cars, and in both cases, once installed I didn't feel the need to change the curve. Adjusters were just a waste of money for me."
06-21-2016, 11:08 PM
#174
Right but you won't know if they need a bit of tweaking til they're on the car. Math is great but there's still the human component (i.e. you behind the wheel). You're putting your faith in someone who's not done an extensive amount of work with the G sedan and he's a good distance away. I'm just playing devil's advocate. If you feel it's what you want, obviously go for it. But if you do find yourself in San Antonio (or even somewhere close), seriously, come take a ride in my car. I'll even let you drive.
Edit: What I'm trying to say is your expectations for what the dampers and ride will feel like may differ from the math used to get to those damping/spring rates. And with no adjustability, you have no options to tune the ride and front/rear bias.
Edit: What I'm trying to say is your expectations for what the dampers and ride will feel like may differ from the math used to get to those damping/spring rates. And with no adjustability, you have no options to tune the ride and front/rear bias.
12-29-2016, 10:28 AM
#175
I just paid for a set of KW V3's and then found this thread. I feel like I did things backwards. Bugger!
This solution is exactly what I am looking for and didn't realise it existed so I took the easy option, I guess we'll see how I go with the KW's and may swap later down the line. I am looking for a drop and stiffen up to improve performance at autocross and the track without ruining the street manners of the car.
This solution is exactly what I am looking for and didn't realise it existed so I took the easy option, I guess we'll see how I go with the KW's and may swap later down the line. I am looking for a drop and stiffen up to improve performance at autocross and the track without ruining the street manners of the car.
12-29-2016, 10:52 AM
#176
I think you'll be fine with the KW's! They're great shocks and double adjustable. There's also the new GReddy KW shocks that are single adjustable and come with upper mounts.
My only big qualm with the KW's are the non-threaded lower mount, reuse of the OEM upper mounts (an associated disassembly of the OEM shock/spring) and having to pull the rear shock to make adjustments. Otherwise I would have gone with them. They'll be more comfortable on the street than a linear spring/mono damper setup. And performance wise, I think they'll be great.
My only big qualm with the KW's are the non-threaded lower mount, reuse of the OEM upper mounts (an associated disassembly of the OEM shock/spring) and having to pull the rear shock to make adjustments. Otherwise I would have gone with them. They'll be more comfortable on the street than a linear spring/mono damper setup. And performance wise, I think they'll be great.
12-29-2016, 12:26 PM
#177
Problem with the kw v1 and v3 is they are way too low in the rear even at the highest setting. I'm Saving up for the aragostas
05-03-2017, 09:19 PM
#178
Registered User
Looking at coils for my G37S sedan. Which would you get of these 3 for pure street driving? I'm in the Southeast so the roads are pretty smooth.
- Powertrix SS
- Fortune Auto 500
- Bilstein PSS10
I'm leaning towards the Bilsteins. Also has anyone messed with SPL bushings on Gs? I want more feedback but I don't want more noise.
- Powertrix SS
- Fortune Auto 500
- Bilstein PSS10
I'm leaning towards the Bilsteins. Also has anyone messed with SPL bushings on Gs? I want more feedback but I don't want more noise.
05-03-2017, 10:02 PM
#179
Bilsteins. Just take the cost of alignment and camber/caster kits into consideration as you'll likely need them. I use SPL rear camber arms and didn't notice any additional NVH. I use the newer SPC's in front which do not have solid bushings to keep NVH at bay.